Author Topic: Mk4 2021 Jazz Brake failure  (Read 119529 times)

BeckyDuck101

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Re: Mk4 2021 Jazz Brake failure
« Reply #60 on: March 18, 2024, 03:57:04 PM »
Hi BigT,
Interested to know how you are progressing re brake simulator? When ours went haywire we were originally told end of March for the part to be shipped from Japan but that was then counter offered with June. That will make it 5 months without a car that was only 3.5 years old!
It would be great to know how others are getting on!
Best, Becky

Saycol

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Re: Mk4 2021 Jazz Brake failure
« Reply #61 on: March 20, 2024, 12:22:18 PM »
I am surprised there isn’t more interest on the Forum about this subject. From what I understand it seems to be cars over 3 years old that are experiencing the fault and some low mileage ones too so looks like it is either age related (slow deterioration of the affected part) or batch related which is what the translation of the Japanese website suggests.

My Crosstar will be 3 years old in June and I believe it was manufactured in January 2021.
Do I have a suspect brake simulator in my car? Will it fail at some point in the future and if so will the car be off the road for 3 to 5 months waiting for replacement parts?

This is my first Honda and I know there are a lot of loyal Honda folk here. I like my car but this major brake failure and the inability of Honda to fix it in under 3 months makes me wonder about the brand and whether going forward (even with the purchase of an extended warranty) I want to take that risk. As the car approaches 3 years old in June, maybe I should think of changing.




Nicksey

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Re: Mk4 2021 Jazz Brake failure
« Reply #62 on: March 20, 2024, 02:02:08 PM »
I am surprised there isn’t more interest on the Forum about this subject. From what I understand it seems to be cars over 3 years old that are experiencing the fault and some low mileage ones too so looks like it is either age related (slow deterioration of the affected part) or batch related which is what the translation of the Japanese website suggests.

My Crosstar will be 3 years old in June and I believe it was manufactured in January 2021.
Do I have a suspect brake simulator in my car? Will it fail at some point in the future and if so will the car be off the road for 3 to 5 months waiting for replacement parts?

This is my first Honda and I know there are a lot of loyal Honda folk here. I like my car but this major brake failure and the inability of Honda to fix it in under 3 months makes me wonder about the brand and whether going forward (even with the purchase of an extended warranty) I want to take that risk. As the car approaches 3 years old in June, maybe I should think of changing.

I have wondered about this too. My first Honda, after years of Renaults with no problems. The Honda was bought as a 'last' car, something I believed would give me reliability, trouble free motoring and a car I could keep long-term. So far I have needed a new washer nozzle and a new windscreen, albeit under warranty.. but in a car that is only just 18 months old and 17k on the clock. Now I am hearing about failing brakes and engines rattling themselves about like a bag of spanners in a washing machine! I have 4 more services, and 3 and a bit left on the 5 year plan. I really hope that after this period the car is still going strong, but I am nervous.

Lincolnshire Rambler

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Re: Mk4 2021 Jazz Brake failure
« Reply #63 on: March 20, 2024, 08:47:02 PM »
Yes it is disconcerting to read of the brake simulation failure . Having had a rodent damaged wiring loom my jazz will be off the road while a new loom arrives from Japan in may .  That’s going to be 3 months of zero use so how will the HV battery cope with that ? Having looked at wiring looms on several new cars at work including a nissan x trail electric hybrid I now consider the loom protection on Honda to be inadequate. A lot of the Honda loom is just wrapped in vinyl tape -(not referring to the orange HV ). All other manufacturers are using that tape but surrounding by lots of convuluted tubing giving an extra layer of protection . So I will be heading to Toyota as their loom protection is a step better  IMHO -which is disappointing as the jazz is a great design !  Once my 5 services has passed and my 3 year warranty ends then I’m getting more convinced to swap to Toyota hybrids …

Daffodil

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Re: Mk4 2021 Jazz Brake failure
« Reply #64 on: March 20, 2024, 08:56:17 PM »
Evening.

I joined this Forum today in the hope of finding out more about what has been described on here as the dashboard lighting up like Christmas and the brakes failing. This has happened to me (60yo F and not a Motorhead).

My Jazz is a 2020 Crosstar - 3 years & 8 months old with less than 7K mileage. I bought the car in February 2022 with less than 1K mileage.

I had a recovery truck take the Jazz to my Honda Dealer today and received a phone call this afternoon to say it was “brake simulator failure” and that repair would be £1797.34 if they could get the part. He anticipated mid April as there were none in the UK or Europe. After reading previous posts, I won’t hold my breath on this delivery date.

The Honda Technician basically said I was out of warranty (obviously the first owner didn’t take out the extended warranty and I was never offered it). So now, like others on here, I don’t have a car, haven’t been offered a courtesy car and have a hefty bill. Any suggestions? I assume they won’t order the part until I pay up?

This problem seems to be far more common that the Dealership realises and isn’t just the Jazz.

Is this a safety issue? Should I just take the hit or argue that a less than 4 year old car with less than 7K on the clock really shouldn’t have a failure such as this?







Saycol

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Re: Mk4 2021 Jazz Brake failure
« Reply #65 on: March 20, 2024, 09:18:05 PM »
Evening.

I joined this Forum today in the hope of finding out more about what has been described on here as the dashboard lighting up like Christmas and the brakes failing. This has happened to me (60yo F and not a Motorhead).

My Jazz is a 2020 Crosstar - 3 years & 8 months old with less than 7K mileage. I bought the car in February 2022 with less than 1K mileage.

I had a recovery truck take the Jazz to my Honda Dealer today and received a phone call this afternoon to say it was “brake simulator failure” and that repair would be £1797.34 if they could get the part. He anticipated mid April as there were none in the UK or Europe. After reading previous posts, I won’t hold my breath on this delivery date.

The Honda Technician basically said I was out of warranty (obviously the first owner didn’t take out the extended warranty and I was never offered it). So now, like others on here, I don’t have a car, haven’t been offered a courtesy car and have a hefty bill. Any suggestions? I assume they won’t order the part until I pay up?

This problem seems to be far more common that the Dealership realises and isn’t just the Jazz.

Is this a safety issue? Should I just take the hit or argue that a less than 4 year old car with less than 7K on the clock really shouldn’t have a failure such as this?

Firstly, very sorry to hear about your car. Not at all what one expects from a trusted manufacturer and in particular for the Jazz which has a reputation for reliability going back years. As you are a new member of the forum, I wonder what the real percentage failure rate of these cars is in the U.K.  And with your low mileage it is clearly age related rather than use, I.e. mileage. How many others are out there who don’t bother to check the internet or car forums are having brake simulator failure ?

In terms of your particular situation and lack of a warranty, I would suggest pursuance of a goodwill contribution from Honda. Others on this forum who have owned Hondas over many years might be able to offer advice on how to proceed.

embee

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Re: Mk4 2021 Jazz Brake failure
« Reply #66 on: March 20, 2024, 11:01:08 PM »
I am no legal expert but I'm pretty sure there is a principle that regardless of warranty or guarantee etc, a product such as a car can be expected to operate as intended, safely, or generally be fit for purpose for a "reasonable time".
A major safety system failure such as the brake controller I suspect would fall into this area if it failed in a significantly shorter time scale than should reasonably be expected, and 3 or 4 years would seem well below what any reasonable consumer might expect. OK if it failed after 20yrs then its a different issue. If a domestic kettle failed after 3 yrs it might be just one of those things, but 3 or 4 yrs is not in my opinion a reasonable service life for the principal brake operating component of a vehicle without which the it is unserviceable and potentially extremely expensive to repair.

If a major car manufacturer didn't play the game sensibly on such an issue issue I would suspect a class action might be on the cards providing a suitable legal expert considered it a viable course of action, but I am just guessing and in no way accuse anyone of anything.

RomanianJazz

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Re: Mk4 2021 Jazz Brake failure
« Reply #67 on: March 21, 2024, 12:08:06 AM »
Since this is a scary (and expensive) problem, I would advise many of us to make some noise to dealerships and perhaps Honda Japan via email, to get some more information and not allow something like this to get swept under the rug.

Nicksey

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Re: Mk4 2021 Jazz Brake failure
« Reply #68 on: March 21, 2024, 07:58:29 AM »
Daffodil, I would be making noise with Honda direct. I would cause as much stink about this issue as you can. To be fobbed off with a repair bill for what is really a very worrying safety flaw in a marquee as reliable reputation wise as Honda, is frankly appalling.

aphybrid

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Re: Mk4 2021 Jazz Brake failure
« Reply #69 on: March 21, 2024, 08:11:25 AM »
Martin Lewis? Which?

coldstart

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Re: Mk4 2021 Jazz Brake failure
« Reply #70 on: March 21, 2024, 08:07:37 PM »
I joined this Forum today in the hope of finding out more about what has been described on here as the dashboard lighting up like Christmas and the brakes failing. This has happened to me (60yo F and not a Motorhead).

I had a recovery truck take the Jazz to my Honda Dealer today and received a phone call this afternoon to say it was “brake simulator failure” and that repair would be £1797.34 if they could get the part. He anticipated mid April as there were none in the UK or Europe. After reading previous posts, I won’t hold my breath on this delivery date.
Welcome to the forum!

(and sorry to hear about your car)

Have you apprised your Honda dealership of the information provided by FMIB in this thread??

What he posted seems to be proof that Honda is aware that something was amiss with the brake simulator for the cars manufactured in the periods mentioned:

July 2, 2018 - March 1, 2020
(Total 525,568 units)
※This case was reported for improvement measures at the notification number "661" dated March 31, 2020, but since a new cause has been found, the improvement content will be changed and notified again.
※Part of the scope includes vehicles that are not subject to renovation.


Half a million cars with this kind of fault is nothing to sneeze at!

Please show this information to your dealer and/or your lawyer (it might help your position).

Good luck!

« Last Edit: March 21, 2024, 08:10:30 PM by coldstart »

Lord Voltermore

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Re: Mk4 2021 Jazz Brake failure
« Reply #71 on: March 22, 2024, 08:02:08 AM »

What he posted seems to be proof that Honda is aware that something was amiss with the brake simulator for the cars manufactured in the periods mentioned:

July 2, 2018 - March 1, 2020
(Total 525,568 units)
※This case was reported for improvement measures at the notification number "661" dated March 31, 2020, but since a new cause has been found, the improvement content will be changed and notified again.
※Part of the scope includes vehicles that are not subject to renovation.


Half a million cars with this kind of fault is nothing to sneeze at!
I agree.   
I have had no problems with my car so far  and  maybe i am being a bit sanguine as  a result.

Honda have a big presence in the USA   where consumers are notoriously inclined to  litigation for  compensation. Honda may have decided they dare not risk Billions of Dollars in claims  by any suggestion they may be attempting to suppress information or minimalize  the seriousness of something they were aware of.  Revealing the number of vehicles affected, or potentially affected,  is no doubt very damaging to their reputation.

But should a company that 'comes clean' be given some credit?    I do wonder how many other manufacturers are aware of similar ,or worse , problems in their vehicles  but have chosen to keep it secret as much as possible and been quite successful in doing so. Deceiving European consumers and recall safety regulators may be easier.    Even the most basic of new cars now come with complex  braking systems  ,electronic driver aids etc.  And sometimes the component parts are made by independent OE equipment manufacturers who also supply  components to other car manufacturers. 

There have been many recent revelations of quite respected manufacturers having cheated on emissions and crash testing etc,  and its always been the case that some businesses use very dubious  morals when it comes to protecting their profits and reputations, with their  employees being complicit  in this to protect their job.

Honda, Toyota and one or two Korean brands tend to dominate the top places in reliability surveys. I'm not sure that changing to a lower placed make  would necessarily improve its reliability prospects.  Especially if I have not read  as many forum posts etc from owners of that car which can tend to highlight any problems but not necessarily the likelihood of such problems. 

But i accept i may take a complete different view if faced with major expense and delay. Thats something Honda should do something about. There is no excuse for parts delays  if at the same time they are  using the same part  to build a new car. Airfreight that part  so  a recently sold car can be promptly repaired.    But Honda are not alone in this.    A bit of delay and confusion in diagnosing a fault is a bit more acceptable.  That suggests  the fault is not that common.   
  Trust a dog to guard your house  , but not your sandwich

Marco1979

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Re: Mk4 2021 Jazz Brake failure
« Reply #72 on: March 22, 2024, 08:24:16 AM »
I can imagine that Honda engineers are working day and night to solve the problem. However, changing the entire braking unit is a rather crude and expensive option. I think they are trying to find out which part is actually causing the malfunction. That might uncover the extent of problems, but also simpler and cheaper solutions.

I hope, in the very near future, Honda finds a workable solution, maybe even a routine test, to go through all cars while in for regular maintenance and repair or replace when needed.

But in the meantime: Honda, please be transparent, admit the problems and make your customers feel heard and taken seriously.

peteo48

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Re: Mk4 2021 Jazz Brake failure
« Reply #73 on: March 22, 2024, 12:06:26 PM »
I wonder how common this fault is? What are the odds of you getting it with your car? Is this a problem with electrified cars in general? (Local story about a Jaguar i pace whose brakes failed and the police had to ram it off the road).

I'm sensing we are a bit short of information here across the whole issue.

I do have a bit of experience about another common fault however and this related to the ABS braking system on the Mk5 VW Golf. This failed so often that support groups were set up and pressure was put on VW to repair on a "good will" basis for cars out of warranty.

Like others I had hoped this would be my last car. I am now thinking I'd like to get rid.

RomanianJazz

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Re: Mk4 2021 Jazz Brake failure
« Reply #74 on: March 22, 2024, 12:28:23 PM »
A question for those affected by this issue: did this happen after recently changing the brake fluid?
I ask this because in the service manual, braking fluid change is due every 3 years, and the Jazz EHEV is 3 years old for most people.

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