Cox motors wheels

[JazzandJag]

Ken, Linda. Are your under boot floor areas anything like the attached picture? If so then John is correct and these are hybrid bodyshells. It would make sense to Honda (but not the customers) if they used a single bodyshell variant for all markets in the Mk3 run-out period.

[ColinB]

I am considering rejecting the car as not suitable for me.  I had to order the car so didn’t see it until I collected it. Naturally,  I expected the car to be the same as the cars in the showroom.

Where do we stand with this?  I did sign a fair amount of paperwork when I collected the car and I’m thinking that there may be some small print in there I’m not going to like.

If you're starting to think about rejection, you need to be aware of your rights, eg:
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/my-new-car-is-faulty-can-i-get-it-fixed-or-claim-a-refund

In your case, the car probably couldn't be considered "faulty" because the issue doesn't prevent it functioning as a car (and in any case it sounds like it was designed and built without the big well). So I suspect any discussion would hinge on whether the car is "as described". If the dealer implied to you before purchase that you could carry a spare wheel in the well, then the car you received is not "as described" so you might have a good case. Whether the dealer would agree that the issue is significant enough to justify rejection would be a moot point.

My dealers now have a car identical to mine in the showroom but,  guess what,  it has a full size well. 

Just a thought, but would you and the dealer entertain the idea of swapping your car for the one he has in stock that meets your needs ? He'll take a loss on that, but it'll be cheaper for him than you rejecting your car outright, plus he'll probably get a happier customer. Maybe worth suggesting to him ?

[Lindajimbob40]

No,  the well isn’t like the one in the photo.  It looks like a normal well with a sloping far end but is very small.

It’s true that I didn’t actually ask whether the new car would have a well for the spare wheel but it was clear to the salesman and other staff around at the time that I do carry one.  I even asked whether the spare in my previous Jazz would fit this car and was assured that it would.  Sadly,  none of this is in writing and I can’t find any reference to it in emails.

Had I been buying the car in the showroom I would have looked over it including the boot but do people do that when collecting a brand new car they have ordered?  Should I have done?  Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I have driven Jazzes for twenty years and Civics before that.  My parents drove Hondas.  Very disappointed.

[Downsizer]

The specifications in the sales brochure for the 2018 Jazz (I think this is the most recent brochure) gives the boot capacity with the rear seats up as 354 litres, including the sub-trunk, so your car cannot meet that specification.  However, I suspect there is a disclaimer to allow them to vary the spec.  What does your handbook say, (if you've got time to wade through it!)

[Lindajimbob40]

I think I may be some time looking through the owner’s manual.  Navigating the index is bad enough.  Is it called a sub-trunk?  I’ll remember that. How do we confirm that it’s not up to spec without filling it with water?

I’ve spoken to the salesman this morning and he agrees that we talked about the spare and that cars in the showroom do have a decent sub trunk.   He tells me he is going to speak to Honda for advice as the car isn’t faulty.  I did enquire as to whether the car matching mine in the showroom is sold and he said it was but seemed a bit hesitant. 

Wonder how Ken’s getting on.

Update.  I have downloaded the brochure and,  using a very strong magnifying glass,  I have found the entry Downsizer is referring to.  Apparently,  we have to fill the boot with 1 litre sized blocks of wood (VDA method) to see whether it is correct. 

[Downsizer]

Apparently,  we have to fill the boot with 1 litre sized blocks of wood (VDA method) to see hwhether it is correct.

I'm sure you have 354 such blocks readily to hand!

[Kenneve]

Right! the official version.
I went into my dealer this morning and spoke to the sales manager. He did not seem aware of any change in specification, neither were his sales staff. So, he sat down and went through a ream paperwork and found a Bulletin document which clearly lists the changes between 19MY vs 20MY vehicles.

One of the changes is:-  There is no longer a fixing point for a spare wheel.

This means that any vehicles remaining in the showroom that have the previous deep 'subtrunk' are 19MY vehicles.
Mine is a 20MY vehicle and most of the 'subtrunk' is only 125mm deep.

I guess you could get a spacesaver wheel in, but you would have no means of fixing it down!!

All this got me thinking, "why am I kidding myself", I'm 82, an ex-cancer patient, with a dodgy shoulder joint, i don't think I could change the wheel at the roadside, without help anyway!
The car has 3 years Accident & Breakdown cover, so why am I bothered?

Other than that the car is superb, an improvement on the previous car, EG, it now has a much larger Yuasa battery on  board, presumably to cope with the rigours of Stop/Start and all the other gizmos.

So, I have brand new unused Steel spare wheel with a part used tyre, remaining tread around 1.8 - 5mm if anyone wants to make an offer, just PM me.

[Jocko]

I wouldn't dream of changing a wheel by the roadside. I would just call up the RAC and have them come out and do it. If you are on a motorway or busy trunk road, you are strongly advised NOT to try changing a wheel yourself, as you risk death or serious injury in doing so.

[Lindajimbob40]

I’ve tried an older spacesaver in the well,  Ken,  and it’s too big causing the boot liner not to sit properly.  Your information is very useful,  though,  and understand why you are now accepting your car. Jocko’s point taken.

A local garage definitely recommends a spare,  though.  They know from experience.

I’ve checked the brochure and there is, as suspected by Downsizer,  a disclaimer stating that they can make both minor and major changes without notice and that specific preferences must be discussed with the dealer.  The salesman admits that he was aware of my preference for the larger sub trunk but was totally unaware of the change in spec.  As was everyone else at the sales room and Cox Motor Parts.

Still waiting for the salesman to call back.

[Downsizer]

The question remains - why has the floor pan in the Mk 3 Jazz been changed?  Perhaps someone ordered the wrong parts in anticipation of the Hybrid only version.

[John Ratsey]

Perhaps someone thought we needed to get used to the fact that there won't be space under the boot floor for a spare wheel in any of the future Honda models (all to be hybrid or EV by 2025). Or maybe there could be space under the bonnet in the EVs without any engine to get in the way? I'm working on convincing myself that with the gradual but slow improvement in mobile coverage in rural areas then the likelihood of getting stranded and unable to call for help is also shrinking.

[Barky]

Well folks, if a 2020 model on Jazz can't take a spare wheel then I won't buy one - deal breaker as I don't want to have to buy a new tyre if I get a puncture & mobile coverage rather patchy

[Kenneve]

The last part of the Bulletin reads:-

The bullet point relating to the spare wheel is a change made at the factory, as a result of future planning, whereby the spare wheel fixing point will not be available in future Hybrid and Electric models (as in the case on CR-V Hybrid).

So it looks as though John's thoughts on using the space for the Hybrid battery is probably correct and creating a floorpan common to all Jazz models.

[John Ratsey]

I went into my dealer this morning and spoke to the sales manager. He did not seem aware of any change in specification, neither were his sales staff. So, he sat down and went through a ream paperwork and found a Bulletin document which clearly lists the changes between 19MY vs 20MY vehicles.

This means that any vehicles remaining in the showroom that have the previous deep 'subtrunk' are 19MY vehicles.
Mine is a 20MY vehicle and most of the 'subtrunk' is only 125mm deep.

If this is documented as the 2020 MY Jazz then I think it means that the Mk. 4's arrival here isn't imminent. Perhaps in the dealers in August 2020 (ie another year from now) which would be 5 years after the Mk. 3 arrived here but one can't exclude even later in the year.

[guest4871]

IIRC The MK 3 arrived in UK about 18 months after launch in Japan.