Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Other Hondas & General Topics => Off Topic (Non-Honda) => Topic started by: Westy36 on July 15, 2021, 04:39:52 PM
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I was sat in my car listening to the radio while Mrs Westy was shopping, when a MK1 Jazz Sport parked in the spot next to me. Well, have a look at the tyre on the NSF !! :o
(https://i.imgur.com/r8cmxzL.jpg)
A new tyre can only be £50 or so, really gets me cross when people run a motor in such a condition. I know we all see it daily, but not noticed it on a Jazz before!
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Seems to have enough tread depth just needs to get the tracking sorted.
Where I used to work someone was driving on a space saver that was showing the steel in the tyre. Needless to say a work colleague informed the police and he was stopped a few days later when leaving work.
I don't know what the outcome was.
Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
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Nah, that's fine.
This one seems OK as well:
(https://i.imgur.com/L4FWJWE.jpg)
:D
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As long as the tread depth is above 1.6mm across 3/4 of the tyre then it's not an issue, regardless of what the tyre police on this and other forums say.
Many suggest replacing them at 3mm but personally If 1.6mm is legal then there is no reason not to run them down to 1.6mm. Even Michelin have said that this is pointless and that tyres would be worn down to 1.6mm.
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As long as the tread depth is above 1.6mm across 3/4 of the tyre then it's not an issue, regardless of what the tyre police on this and other forums say.
Many suggest replacing them at 3mm but personally If 1.6mm is legal then there is no reason not to run them down to 1.6mm. Even Michelin have said that this is pointless and that tyres would be worn down to 1.6mm.
I agree, it seems OK with more expensive tyres, but not the cheap and cheerful ones.... ( which are sometimes not real safe even when new ). https://www.roundtriptyres.co.uk/tyre-guide/should-i-change-my-tyres-at-3mm/
Thinking of the environment, raising the limit to 3mm would have a huge impact on the number of tyres that get thrown away.
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As long as the tread depth is above 1.6mm across 3/4 of the tyre then it's not an issue, regardless of what the tyre police on this and other forums say.
Many suggest replacing them at 3mm but personally If 1.6mm is legal then there is no reason not to run them down to 1.6mm. Even Michelin have said that this is pointless and that tyres would be worn down to 1.6mm.
I'm sure I heard somebody from Michelin saying exactly that in an interview. This must have been at least 5 years ago.
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Seems like a false economy. The tyres are your only contact with the road, for £50 a corner, it has to be right.
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Absolutely, never skimp on tyres or brakes.
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From Michelin: (underlining mine.)
If the surface of the tread rubber is level with these raised areas, the tyre tread depth is most likely very close to the legal limit of 1.6 mm. Beyond this limit, you are putting your safety at risk and you are breaking the law. Even if the remaining tread depth is greater than 1.6 mm, you should adapt your speed and driving style to the external conditions, particularly on wet roads. Something we should all do irrespective of the tread depth.
https://www.michelin.co.uk/auto/tips-and-advice/advice-auto/when-to-replace-tyres][url]https://www.michelin.co.uk/auto/tips-and-advice/advice-auto/when-to-replace-tyres (http://[url)[/url]
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As long as the tread depth is above 1.6mm across 3/4 of the tyre then it's not an issue, regardless of what the tyre police on this and other forums say.
Many suggest replacing them at 3mm but personally If 1.6mm is legal then there is no reason not to run them down to 1.6mm. Even Michelin have said that this is pointless and that tyres would be worn down to 1.6mm.
I'm sure I heard somebody from Michelin saying exactly that in an interview. This must have been at least 5 years ago.
Saying what? That tyres should be replaced at 3mm or that they should be run down to 1.6mm?
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They were saying it was acceptable to run the tyres down to 1.6 mm. I wonder if this was a spokesman going rogue. I must admit I'd not be too comfortable going too far below 3mm myself.
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Some discussion on Michelin's stance here: https://www.fleetservicegb.co.uk/michelin-rejects-3mm-legal-tyre-tread-depth-call-arguing-1-6mm-is-safe/
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I would not like to drive on snow with 1.6mm summer tyre depth..
Grip is bad enough with 8mm..
You can have a very spectacular spin at 20 mph with worn rear tyres.
Do not ask how I know. (It was a BMW 318i many years ago).
Michelin CCs are on 5mm so good for 3 years yet
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As long as the tread depth is above 1.6mm across 3/4 of the tyre then it's not an issue, regardless of what the tyre police on this and other forums say.
Many suggest replacing them at 3mm but personally If 1.6mm is legal then there is no reason not to run them down to 1.6mm. Even Michelin have said that this is pointless and that tyres would be worn down to 1.6mm.
There are reasons to avoid running tyres down to 1.6 mm wait until it is raining with pooling of water!
As the the tread depth diminishes, the tyre loses capacity to clear water, the 1.6mm tyre will be prone to aquaplane over the tarmac surface, steering control and braking capacity will be diminished or even lost altogether. The UK limit of 1.6mm is probably too close for comfort, I believe other countries enforce greater depths for minimum tread, there is no excuse to skimping on tyres, they actually a bargain for the important function they perform. What do you save anyway? Four set of tyres in 10 years, or 5 sets in 10 years of motoring, That is a difference of only £20 / annum, barely worth the bother
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The narrower the tyre the less distance water has to travel to the edge to escape, so narrower tyres with 1.6mm probably better than a wide tyre with 3mm on standing water, Not sure if tread depth of a ribbed summer tyre matters much on snow anyway as winter tyres work by trapping snow, softer compound and a lot more sipes...
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Found this on youtube
Second half of video is a braking test From 30 mph to a stop, worn tyres with 1.6 mm tread, emergency braking distance increased by an addition of 2 car lengths over new tyres on a wet road with surface water, and note, only 30 mph to zero. First half of video shows stability issues and skid recovery problems of worn / budget tyres on wet roads with surface water
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I have found Michelin tyres not real good in wet anyway, but give good wear, it is a trade-off between mileage and grip really, and the harder, longer wearing compound lacks grip on dry or wet roads, I noticed a huge difference when I stopped using Michelin ES and fitted Avons - both in grip grip and handling. I used to get Michelin due to high annual mileage and understood to trade off between grip and mileage, but now at about 5K a year per car (we have two cars used mainly on alternate trips ) the lower mileage / treadwear rating of the Avons does not bother me, but the grip is awesome, wet or dry.
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It is strange that Michelin is advocating changing your tyres less often. Irrespective of their stance on the matter, as a tyre supplier you would think they would just keep quiet, not advocate running tyres for longer.
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I have found Michelin tyres not real good in wet anyway, but give good wear, it is a trade-off between mileage and grip really, and the harder, longer wearing compound lacks grip on dry or wet roads
Yes, I have noted the same. Mileage, decent noise and good handling has kept me using mainly Michelins for a long time. Factory mounted Dunlops in my Jazz are wearing so fast, that it seems I need to get Michelins already next summer.
Knowing wery well the negative effect on grip, I try to get tires that are made several years ago, as that gives even more mileage. Harder rubber also imporoves the handling. According to my experience, if annual mielage is low enough, a tyre is good for more than twenty years. After 25-30 years the plies tend to break causing a bulge, which you can feel very well inside the car. I have had that happen couple of times. Never had any sudden failure.
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25 - 30 years :o
and there's me worrying about my 2012 manufactured tyres on my 2013 car that still have 5mm tread on them due to only having covered 25k.
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25 - 30 years :o
and there's me worrying about my 2012 manufactured tyres on my 2013 car that still have 5mm tread on them due to only having covered 25k.
Tyres up to 5 years old can legally be sold as 'new'.......
https://www.kwik-fit.com/tyres/information/tyre-age
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Of course a tyre loosees some performance during the years, but if the driver takes that into account, it is very much usable for twenty years.
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Of course a tyre loosees some performance during the years, but if the driver takes that into account, it is very much usable for twenty years.
I believe tyres also get more porous as they age, requiring pressurised air to be added more often....
Just like tyres people also lose their grip as they age.....
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It is correct to state that Rubber can last 30+ years, that is why it is used as an insulator on railway power and signalling cables which can withstand 30 years in the open exposed to the UK climate.
My local independent tyre fitter showed me mechanical failures of modern tyres, it is a trend beginning around 2010, the failure is a circumferential crack at the crown of the tyre, where the crown is the 90 degree corner between the sidewall and the tread, flex the tire you can see all the way to the white material of the carcass, as it is a recent problem he thinks it is due to changes in tyre compounds, tyre compounds have been re-formulated over the decade to reduce rolling resistance and save fuel, perhaps he has given away the answer
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Of course a tyre loosees some performance during the years, but if the driver takes that into account, it is very much usable for twenty years.
I believe tyres also get more porous as they age, requiring pressurised air to be added more often....
Just like tyres people also lose their grip as they age.....
You may very well be right. I haven't noted it, but I check tyre pressures with a meter on compressor hose, and I feel need to adjust pressure every time I check it, because some air comes out while pushing the connector on valve. Currently I don't have older than 12 years old car tyres in use.
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It is correct to state that Rubber can last 30+ years, that is why it is used as an insulator on railway power and signalling cables which can withstand 30 years in the open exposed to the UK climate.
My local independent tyre fitter showed me mechanical failures of modern tyres, it is a trend beginning around 2010, the failure is a circumferential crack at the crown of the tyre, where the crown is the 90 degree corner between the sidewall and the tread, flex the tire you can see all the way to the white material of the carcass, as it is a recent problem he thinks it is due to changes in tyre compounds, tyre compounds have been re-formulated over the decade to reduce rolling resistance and save fuel, perhaps he has given away the answer
Anyone who has ever rewired an older house with VRI ( vulcanised rubber insulation ) cable and had the rubber crumble to dust ( like a vampire in sunlight ) will know that even in total darkness rubber does not last for ever. It is mainly sunlight that destroys things ( high energy UV light ), UV can destroy pretty much anything if exposed long enough, one of the reasons Red paint fades so much is that it absorbs the high energy rays at blue end of spectrum.
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They were saying it was acceptable to run the tyres down to 1.6 mm. I wonder if this was a spokesman going rogue. I must admit I'd not be too comfortable going too far below 3mm myself.
If it was unsafe/dangerous we wouldn't be allowed to do it and tyre manufactures wouldn't guarantee a tyre safety down to 1.6mm. I run mine down to 1.6mm all the time and while you can notice the reduced grip, it's not that drastic although the car recently has been wiggling on the motorway when going over standing water. If the tyres aquaplane completly you get a little wheelspin at motorway speeds which is alarming.
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As long as the tread depth is above 1.6mm across 3/4 of the tyre then it's not an issue, regardless of what the tyre police on this and other forums say.
Many suggest replacing them at 3mm but personally If 1.6mm is legal then there is no reason not to run them down to 1.6mm. Even Michelin have said that this is pointless and that tyres would be worn down to 1.6mm.
There are reasons to avoid running tyres down to 1.6 mm wait until it is raining with pooling of water!
As the the tread depth diminishes, the tyre loses capacity to clear water, the 1.6mm tyre will be prone to aquaplane over the tarmac surface, steering control and braking capacity will be diminished or even lost altogether. The UK limit of 1.6mm is probably too close for comfort, I believe other countries enforce greater depths for minimum tread, there is no excuse to skimping on tyres, they actually a bargain for the important function they perform. What do you save anyway? Four set of tyres in 10 years, or 5 sets in 10 years of motoring, That is a difference of only £20 / annum, barely worth the bother
The tyres I fit work out at 30 quid a tyre and while they are awful in every way possible, they have done thousands of miles in rain and even snow up over Dartmoor in early January. I refuse to pay 60-70 quid a corner when the cheap ones do the job just fine.
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The tyres I fit work out at 30 quid a tyre and while they are awful in every way possible, they have done thousands of miles in rain and even snow up over Dartmoor in early January. I refuse to pay 60-70 quid a corner when the cheap ones do the job just fine.
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Well it's your choice, but did you watch the video showing the budget tyres performing as poorly as a worn tyre? The inabilty to regain control when the good tyres were barely affected.
Another test I have seen measured treadwear rates, the budget tyrtes wore out quickly negating the saving at purchase.
If budget tyres are so fit for purpose, why do the car makers avoid using them as a factory fit?
Even the cost-concious Dacia Sandero at £7995 OTR new, leaves the factory with Continental tyres all round, Continental are a highly regarded maker, most certainly not a budget brand
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Like I said earlier, tyres are a very important necessity.
Good quality tyres give you piece of mind, particularly if you are doing long journeys on A roads,motorways,etc, this is where they come into their own.
But if you are just poodling around town, the budget tyres basicly do the job, the journeys are low speed, and you are seldom far from home.
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I love cars and driving and I am very critical about tyre stability, handling and noise. Therefore I prefer worn and old premiun tyres way over cheap and lousy new ones. In recent years I have bought Michelins, Goodyears and some Hankooks for sizes that are not available from premium brands anymore. Sizes like 165/70R13 or 205R14C are getting difficult to find.
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I find people's attitudes to tyres quite intriguing.
A reasonable car might cost something like £1500/yr in depreciation, insurance, MOT/tax, servicing etc, plus 10-15p/mile in fuel so another £500-1000 ballpark, north of a couple of grand a year total typically.
The tyres are what take you directly to the scene of the accident.
I'm not sure why maybe £300 for a set of decent tyres for a common size known brand every 5yrs or something seems so outrageous to some folk.
Each to their own of course, I'm somewhat obsessive about tyres I freely admit, I've changed car tyres which are only slightly worn but are getting near 10yrs old (summer toy car), and only 5yrs old on a motorbike.
Anyone (well, most anyway) who rides motorbikes will know the difference between really good tyres and not-so-good can be dramatic, alarming, and indeed scary.
A comment in that video about the "British" attitudes is true. A friend worked for a company making wiper blades (among other things), Britain had by far the lowest sales of wiper blades per registered vehicle of any European country, presumably because we are just tight wads. We don't change wiper blades until the metal is scoring the screen and the rubber is dangling in the breeze. Predictably Germany has the highest sales.
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The tyres I fit work out at 30 quid a tyre and while they are awful in every way possible, they have done thousands of miles in rain and even snow up over Dartmoor in early January. I refuse to pay 60-70 quid a corner when the cheap ones do the job just fine.
Well it's your choice, but did you watch the video showing the budget tyres performing as poorly as a worn tyre? The inabilty to regain control when the good tyres were barely affected.
Another test I have seen measured treadwear rates, the budget tyrtes wore out quickly negating the saving at purchase.
If budget tyres are so fit for purpose, why do the car makers avoid using them as a factory fit?
Even the cost-concious Dacia Sandero at £7995 OTR new, leaves the factory with Continental tyres all round, Continental are a highly regarded maker, most certainly not a budget brand
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I have seen the video yes, but I still prefer to spend 30 quid instead of 65 - 70.
The "if budget tyres are so fit for purpose" thing can be spun back around at you and can be countered with "if budget tyres aren't fit for purpose why are we allowed to use them in this H&S mad country". If they were dangerous we would be able to use them but they're not so we can.
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I find people's attitudes to tyres quite intriguing.
A reasonable car might cost something like £1500/yr in depreciation, insurance, MOT/tax, servicing etc, plus 10-15p/mile in fuel so another £500-1000 ballpark, north of a couple of grand a year total typically.
The tyres are what take you directly to the scene of the accident.
I'm not sure why maybe £300 for a set of decent tyres for a common size known brand every 5yrs or something seems so outrageous to some folk.
Each to their own of course, I'm somewhat obsessive about tyres I freely admit, I've changed car tyres which are only slightly worn but are getting near 10yrs old (summer toy car), and only 5yrs old on a motorbike.
Anyone (well, most anyway) who rides motorbikes will know the difference between really good tyres and not-so-good can be dramatic, alarming, and indeed scary.
A comment in that video about the "British" attitudes is true. A friend worked for a company making wiper blades (among other things), Britain had by far the lowest sales of wiper blades per registered vehicle of any European country, presumably because we are just tight wads. We don't change wiper blades until the metal is scoring the screen and the rubber is dangling in the breeze. Predictably Germany has the highest sales.
I mean, by absoulute weapon of a Jazz was £900 and it's lasted 18 months so far so depreciation isn't really a consideration and it will be crashed on private land and then scrapped when it dies, which it will.
In reality it won't be £300 quid every 5 years, it will be 300 quid every year because tyres just don't last for me. As for the windscreen wipers, the rubber on mine flew of on the motorway so that was that.
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Each to their own ! I buy the best tyres I can afford. The only contact with the road is the size of a childs hand per corner. I have never understood why 4 wheel drive owners with OE summer tyres think they are in some way superior. You can have the best ABS /EBD and any other gizzmo, It is that very small footprint of material that you are depending on. A 2 wheel drive vehicle can actually be better with winter/all season on it. Shoes and tyres i never skimp on. I use Michelin currently but I would not go down to 1.6 mm with any make, after hitting standing water at 70mph and the car skitting off in another direction. Not brand fuussy either.
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Each to their own ! I buy the best tyres I can afford. The only contact with the road is the size of a childs hand per corner. I have never understood why 4 wheel drive owners with OE summer tyres think they are in some way superior. You can have the best ABS /EBD and any other gizzmo, It is that very small footprint of material that you are depending on. A 2 wheel drive vehicle can actually be better with winter/all season on it. Shoes and tyres i never skimp on. I use Michelin currently but I would not go down to 1.6 mm with any make, after hitting standing water at 70mph and the car skitting off in another direction. Not brand fuussy either.
I couldn't have put it better myself. For a modest outlay, you can have 4 decent tyres that will give you safety and piece of mind. High speed roads are where decent tyres earn their crust.
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Each to their own ! I buy the best tyres I can afford. The only contact with the road is the size of a childs hand per corner. I have never understood why 4 wheel drive owners with OE summer tyres think they are in some way superior. You can have the best ABS /EBD and any other gizzmo, It is that very small footprint of material that you are depending on. A 2 wheel drive vehicle can actually be better with winter/all season on it. Shoes and tyres i never skimp on. I use Michelin currently but I would not go down to 1.6 mm with any make, after hitting standing water at 70mph and the car skitting off in another direction. Not brand fuussy either.
The majority of car accidents or "incidents" are not spectacular high-speed collisions, they are collisions at low speeds in built up areas, e.g. 30 mph limited roads. Emergency braking from 30 mph on wet roads, a good set of tyres may give you an advantage of a couple of car lengths in reduced stopping distance, that couple of car lengths can be the difference between an incident of a "near miss" stopping short without a collision, only a serious scare, and a physical collision with costly damage, insurance claims and prosecution for a driving offence.
I'll stick with my expensive tyres until someone can convince me otherwise
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The torrential rain this country has begun experiencing convinced me to opt for 4 season tyres. Let's face it, here in the UK we can get 4 seasons in one afternoon. I bought Yokohama Bluearth 4S tyres. £248 for four. So far they have done 12,000 miles, so about 2 pence a mile. I have just swapped the fronts with the rears. I, therefore, expect at least another 12,000 miles before I have to start checking wear. A small price for safety.
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Each to their own ! I buy the best tyres I can afford. The only contact with the road is the size of a childs hand per corner. I have never understood why 4 wheel drive owners with OE summer tyres think they are in some way superior. You can have the best ABS /EBD and any other gizzmo, It is that very small footprint of material that you are depending on. A 2 wheel drive vehicle can actually be better with winter/all season on it. Shoes and tyres i never skimp on. I use Michelin currently but I would not go down to 1.6 mm with any make, after hitting standing water at 70mph and the car skitting off in another direction. Not brand fuussy either.
Why? You have paid for all that tread so why wouldn't you use it? Seems daft to me.
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Why? You have paid for all that tread so why wouldn't you use it? Seems daft to me.
I used to think the way you do then, as I got older, I gained some wisdom.
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The torrential rain this country has begun experiencing convinced me to opt for 4 season tyres. Let's face it, here in the UK we can get 4 seasons in one afternoon. I bought Yokohama Bluearth 4S tyres. £248 for four. So far they have done 12,000 miles, so about 2 pence a mile. I have just swapped the fronts with the rears. I, therefore, expect at least another 12,000 miles before I have to start checking wear. A small price for safety.
I think they're a good idea in the UK - it annoys me they're not optional on the various SUVs that are on sale now.
I run my Merc on All-Season's and our 2009 Jazz has full winter Michelin Alpins (on 15" wheels that I bought for it) year round, they look like normal tyres and last well. It came with 16" Dunlop SP2030's and they're sold as All Season in some places and they did indeed work fine during the 2009/10 and 10/11 winters. Didn't last long though.
I just ordered a set of Michelin Primacy 3's for our 2014 Jazz - on the 16" size there's not a huge choice. Some of the Michelin versions are gone now and I called Costco and although they have the Primacy's listed they didn't have any and wherever they get them from wasn't accepting orders. Found Tyres on the Drive had them, and with 15% off offer which is a useful saving.
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If anyone fancies setting up a winter set, I have a set of four alloy wheels off my 2005SE just sitting here doing nothing. A small donation to my charity and they're yours. They need refurbishing as a couple of them leaked slowly so replaced with steel wheels. West Yorkshire, if anyone is interested.
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Actually went and got some new front tyres today. The old ones were down to 1.6mm and the wet weather grip was a bit off to say the least.
They didn't have any super cheap ones in stock so I went for the other ones at £37.50 a tyre. Arrowspeed HP01's.