Poor Quality Pattern Parts

[UKjim]

Car had it’s MOT today and everything OK other than an advisory for a slightly worn passenger side lower wishbone (bonding pulling away). 12 months ago I had a pair of new Delphi wishbones (purchased  by me) fitted as the Honda originals were past their best. To say the least I’m disappointed that one is starting to fail after 4000 miles.

The independent Honda garage informed me that in their experience unless your buy Honda originals, all pattern parts are subject to premature failure. The Honda part is about £375 for one wishbone almost 10 times the price of a Febi or Delphi.

It’s likely I will need to replace it next year, anyone have any experience of a decent alternative to the OEM part?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[degzi]

It could be that the garage where you had it fitted didn't tigten the bolts when the suspension was under load.

If you tighten up fully when it's in the air the  bushing will always be under tension and cause premature wear.

[UKjim]

I see your point, but the garage I use is a well regarded Honda specialist with a couple of decades of main dealer experience.

[olduser1]

Try Search on blueprint by make model year, I wouldn't personally use any part from D****
https://partsfinder.bilsteingroup.com/en/search

[UKjim]

Try Search on blueprint by make model year, I wouldn't personally use any part from D****
https://partsfinder.bilsteingroup.com/en/search

Thanks for information, I had thought Delphi was or used to be well regarded.

It appears that the Febi and BluePrint are both Febi Bilstein brands, which you would you recommend? Can they be any good at less than £40?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[madasafish]

The pattern front wishbones I bought for our 2003 Toyota Yaris are still going strong after 5 years.
But then I fitted them myself and only tightened hem up when wheels on ground under load: a pia.
Most pattern parts are ok if fitted properly.
Failure of bushes prematurely suggest bad fitting.

[FBogdan]

Hi!
I didn't used Blue Print parts until now, but the feed back from mechanics is not good for them.
In my country (Romania), the best quality you can get for AM parts related to suspension is usually at Lemforder.
Though I believe that the colleague which suggested a bad tighten strategy is correct, because any cheap after market part should last more than 4000 miles.

[UKjim]

Can I just add that the part hasn’t failed completely, it has started to pull away but will probably last until the next MOT.

Whilst I appreciate all your suggestions I can categorically say that the Honda trained specialist of 25 years plus experience having changed probably thousands of wishbones knows how to fit them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FBogdan]

It could be that the garage where you had it fitted didn't tigten the bolts when the suspension was under load.

If you tighten up fully when it's in the air the  bushing will always be under tension and cause premature wear.

Hi mate!
I'm not challenging your assumption, but how can you tight the bolts on wishbones with the suspension under load? There's not enough space to do this and even of you manage to fix on the bolts, there's no strength position or not enough space to move with enough force. Only if you have conditions to stand under the car it's possible (an inspection ramp instead of an elevator).

[Jocko]

We just put a jack under the wheel end of the wishbone and took the weight of the car on that. You don't even need to put the wheel on. You have tons of access.

[Lord Voltermore]

Its been a few years since I last  changed  wishbones etc   but I seem to recall that on some parts the rubber bushes etc were overpainted with some sort of rubber paint, presumably to stop the surface of the rubber deteriorating in storage.(and 'looks good')  This coating sometimes extended over metal parts.s . When the rubber bush  ,inevitably, flexes in use  the overpainted join between rubber and metal,quickly  separates  making things look worse than they really are.

I'm not a qualified mot tester  but my understanding is some movement and deterioration of rubber parts is expected and  acceptable, and its a matter of the testers judgment  whether it has become excessive.   

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-private-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles/5-axles-wheels-tyres-and-suspension

5.3.4. Suspension joints, pins and bushes
Some rubber/synthetic bushes are designed to provide a comparatively high degree of compliance and are therefore likely to show some movement.

You should only reject rubber or synthetic bushes when you can see serious deterioration of the bonding or flexible material.

So maybe the replacement is ok, and will remain so for  many more miles/years..   

IIRC  some original components on my Corsa were made by Delphi, so at that time they were an OEM  (original equipment manufacturer).   Delphi were ,until about 1999, owned by General Motors.  They are currently owned by Borg Warner.        But as with all well known names you really have to keep up to date on current ownership.  Many famous names are now owned by far eastern makers, who exploit the name and past  reputation,  but not necessarily their manufacturing facilities or quality. 

And some formerly well respected  big names, such as Champion'  (and I believe Delphi)  now class themselves as 'after market'       Champion  for instance were once,and possibly still are , OE quality spark plug makers  (Although I prefered  other brands such as NGK)   But they now market a whole variety of other 'after market'products such as oil filters and wiper blades, where they have no previous expertise  or reputation. 

[madasafish]

It could be that the garage where you had it fitted didn't tigten the bolts when the suspension was under load.

If you tighten up fully when it's in the air the  bushing will always be under tension and cause premature wear.

Hi mate!
I'm not challenging your assumption, but how can you tight the bolts on wishbones with the suspension under load? There's not enough space to do this and even of you manage to fix on the bolts, there's no strength position or not enough space to move with enough force. Only if you have conditions to stand under the car it's possible (an inspection ramp instead of an elevator).

I did it under the car which was over a pit.
Garages use hoists

[E27006]

Car had it’s MOT today and everything OK other than an advisory for a slightly worn passenger side lower wishbone (bonding pulling away). 12 months ago I had a pair of new Delphi wishbones (purchased  by me) fitted as the Honda originals were past their best. To say the least I’m disappointed that one is starting to fail after 4000 miles.

The independent Honda garage informed me that in their experience unless your buy Honda originals, all pattern parts are subject to premature failure. The Honda part is about £375 for one wishbone almost 10 times the price of a Febi or Delphi.

It’s likely I will need to replace it next year, anyone have any experience of a decent alternative to the OEM part?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If nearside and offside wishbones were replaced, and only one has failed, then it may be a faulty part. Is the part covered by a warranty  by the garage or supplier?
The successful long-term bonding of rubber to metal subject to shear forces is something of a "black art", careful preparation of the materials and control of the curing  is required,  I think you may be dealing with  a one-off rather than entirely unsatisfactory components

[UKjim]

Just once side has exhibited some wear but bear in mind it is entirely serviceable for the next year or so I guess. It was fitted 13 months ago and had a 12 month warranty.

The cost of the part was negligible, most of the cost being labour and not covered by the warranty as I supplied the part.

[Jocko]

I got the same advisory for the same part (3rd party wishbone) in 2018. In 2019 it didn't even get an advisory then it finally needed replacing in 2020, 28,000 miles after the advisory.