Hydrogen powered.

[Jocko]

I saw a bit on the news yesterday about trials of a new Hydrogen-powered train. Disappointed to see it takes most of the day to refuel but at least it was using the hydrogen to produce electricity to power the locomotive.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-54350046

And this morning there was news that Glasgow is to get a fleet of 19 Hydrogen-powered Refuse trucks.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-54364426

Maybe hydrogen power is not going to be bypassed after all.

[trebor1652]

Yes, they go like a bomb, apparently.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[JimSh]

I saw a bit on the news yesterday about trials of a new Hydrogen-powered train. Disappointed to see it takes most of the day to refuel but at least it was using the hydrogen to produce electricity to power the locomotive.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-54350046

And this morning there was news that Glasgow is to get a fleet of 19 Hydrogen-powered Refuse trucks.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-54364426

Maybe hydrogen power is not going to be bypassed after all.

Are they not already doing this in Fife Jocko? My brother- in- law has a house in Ceres.
I can remember going to a recycling centre and there was what looked like a Hydrogen refuelling system which I assumed was for council vehicles. Can't remember where it  was. (We were recycling garden refuse and en route for somewhere else.)
Searched on Google
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-12215386#:~:text=The%20%C2%A34.7m%20Hydrogen%20Office%20in%20Fife%20is%20expected,developed%20by%20the%20Pure%20Energy%20Centre%20in%20Unst.

https://www.bdcmagazine.com/2020/09/energy-utilities/award-winning-study-identifies-fife-as-potential-hydrogen-powerhouse/

Found more appropriate link
https://www.recyclingwasteworld.co.uk/news/fife-council-opts-for-hydrogen-and-diesel-powered-refuse-collection-vehicles/88032/

Edit Added third link

[Jocko]

You are right enough. I found this:

https://greenfleet.net/features/25112016/fife-councils-hydrogen-plans

And this.

https://www.energylivenews.com/2016/05/24/fife-council-gets-worlds-first-hydrogen-diesel-bin-lorries/

Fife Council also has a large fleet of electric vehicles as has NHS Fife.

It is a pity that the vast wind farm in the mouth of the Forth is being built using US and Chinese companies while Bi Fab at Burntisland and Methil, specialists at offshore construction, have been cut out of the deal. UK government must have an eye towards future trade deals.

[JimSh]

I think at the time some of the hydrogen might have been from hydrcarbons at Mossmoran rather than from renewable sources.

[TnTkr]

It is a pity that the vast wind farm in the mouth of the Forth is being built using US and Chinese companies while Bi Fab at Burntisland and Methil, specialists at offshore construction, have been cut out of the deal. UK government must have an eye towards future trade deals.

Unfortunately this is typical short-sighted decision-making and not taking into account effects in longer period and wider view. Personally I would call it a treason considering Chinese aims to increase global economical and political dominance.

[JimSh]

It is a pity that the vast wind farm in the mouth of the Forth is being built using US and Chinese companies while Bi Fab at Burntisland and Methil, specialists at offshore construction, have been cut out of the deal. UK government must have an eye towards future trade deals.

Yep. It's a bl**dy disgrace

[Derkie54]

There is a hydrogen filling station at Honda in Swindon. It was put in as a bus refuel point when we held the Olympics here a few years ago.

[JimSh]

I thought hydrogen powered buses would be ICE but see that some are powered by fuel cells.
https://www.alexander-dennis.com/media/news/2018/november/adl-adds-hydrogen-fuel-cell-technology-to-the-market-s-widest-range-of-low-and-zero-emission-buses/#

[John Ratsey]

A fuel cell is around 50% more efficient than an internal combudtion engine https://www.californiahydrogen.org/wp-content/uploads/files/doe_fuelcell_factsheet.pdf . I suspect that a fuel cell works best alongside a battery so that the fuel cell can run continuously but the battery helps with peak power requirements, thus enabling the fuel cell to be smaller as it only needs to meet average, not peak power requirements. Buses operate in urban conditions with plenty of stopping so, with a battery, there's also opportunity to use regenerative braking. However, manufacturers might push the ICE approach if it's cheaper to build and leave the user to worry about the operating cost - hydrogen made using electricity won't be cheap. I see that Glasgow is getting some hydrogen-powered refuse trucks https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-54364426 but it doesn't mention which system will be used. Sensibly fuel cell + battery + regenerative braking as these vehicles do even more stopping than buses.

[TnTkr]

My understanding is that a hydrogen fuel cell would be cheaper if produced in such big numbers as piston engines. Time will show...

[Jocko]

The refuse trucks in Fife are dual fuel, hydrogen/diesel. It looks like Glasgow may be likewise as I found this comment by one of their councillors. “These dual fuel vehicles should act as a significant stepping stone towards emissions-free gritters and refuse trucks as part of our wider strategy for a zero emissions fleet.

[John Ratsey]

The more I think about it the more I think there's plenty of scope for hydrogen-powered vehicles. All that solar and wind energy might be renewable, when it works, but there's plenty of occasions when it doesn't. The attached file shows the generating sources on 29th Sept when we ended up burning lots of coal - unusual for this time of year given that it will soon be phased out completely - and yesterday was similar - see https://gridwatch.co.uk/ .

UK now has over 16GW of wind https://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/stories/grid-at-work/uk-wind-power-record-broken-blustery-weekend and 8GW of solar but for all of that there needs to be another backup source of power. I see the way forward as being a lot more nuclear (uness there's a big investment in tidal and wave energy) with the wind and sun, when they work, being used to create hydrogen which can be stored.

[madasafish]

The more I think about it the more I think there's plenty of scope for hydrogen-powered vehicles. All that solar and wind energy might be renewable, when it works, but there's plenty of occasions when it doesn't. The attached file shows the generating sources on 29th Sept when we ended up burning lots of coal - unusual for this time of year given that it will soon be phased out completely - and yesterday was similar - see https://gridwatch.co.uk/ .

UK now has over 16GW of wind https://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/stories/grid-at-work/uk-wind-power-record-broken-blustery-weekend and 8GW of solar but for all of that there needs to be another backup source of power. I see the way forward as being a lot more nuclear (uness there's a big investment in tidal and wave energy) with the wind and sun, when they work, being used to create hydrogen which can be stored.

The technology to produce large scale battery storage - NOT using Lithium - is developing..  That will cover short term still non windy cloudy periods when wind/solar are minimal..

[culzean]

The technology to produce large scale battery storage - NOT using Lithium - is developing..  That will cover short term still non windy cloudy periods when wind/solar are minimal..

Redox flow batteries

https://www.smart-energy.com/industry-sectors/storage/the-vanadium-redox-flow-battery-a-game-changer-for-energy-storage-safety/