Can't get on with new Jazz, thinking of returning it

[monkeydave]

i just testdrove a mk3 facelift s jazz on sunday and the steering and gearstick are very light indeed, feels like driving an 18-wheeler getting back into the yaris

but i did like it so i got an 7 month old 18 plate jazz s hopefully picking it up on sat

[dg]

I kind of regret buying mk3, I hate it's sluggish engine
Yes atkinson cycle under 2.5k etc and I hit throttle limiter regularly, but it's just no joy
I have to work gears twice as much compared to i-dsi
slightest hill and you got to drop gears fast
I don't see much difference in fuel consumption even when driving for economy
Both me and my partner still enjoy old mk1 jazz once in a while
Thought it would just take some getting used to, but half a year on still same feeling

[beerbelly]

Hello from Copenhagen..

When the new Jazz was introduced  i Denmark, one of the newspapers( who tested it) complaint about tall people had to sit with their head between their knees- because of the low mounted seats. So I heard about the problem !
I like my new Jazz but im only 180 cm and the front seat is all the way back. I think its about how the body is put together

I like this forum. A lot of good information.

Cheers

[culzean]

I kind of regret buying mk3, I hate it's sluggish engine
Yes atkinson cycle under 2.5k etc and I hit throttle limiter regularly, but it's just no joy
I have to work gears twice as much compared to i-dsi
slightest hill and you got to drop gears fast
I don't see much difference in fuel consumption even when driving for economy
Both me and my partner still enjoy old mk1 jazz once in a while
Thought it would just take some getting used to, but half a year on still same feeling

I have said on here many times both her indoors and myself liked the i-DSi engine in the first Jazzes we had best of all, and fuel consumption was great - Its all right having these fancy engines but they have to be 'driveable' and if they are not ( and the MPG is not much better than models that are ) they will not be acceptable to buyers.  Having driven my brothers 2017 Suzuki Vitara 1.4 boosterjet AWD it may well be my next car - the engine is an absolute peach with great torque from 1500 right up to over 4500 revs,  and he says the MPG is great as well ( he was a diesel head until a few years ago when he saw which way the wind was blowing on diesel, he first bought a Skoda Octavia 1.4 FSi ( IIRC ) but had so many problems, some of which the dealer never fixed, that he sent it back after less than 6 months and got the Suzuki,  he has never looked back ( he does not need to - his Vitara has a reversing camera  )

[Jocko]

I was speaking to jeangenie a couple of days ago and she is going to buy a Nissan Leaf. She is waiting on the new 60kWh e+, due in the UK in the summer. She hasn't fallen out of love with the Jazz, but her boss is allowing employees with electric cars to charge them for free at her office. Seemingly he is a bit of an eco warrior. I am sure she will be back here nearer the time, to keep us all informed.

[dg]

afair new leaf still has passive battery cooling.. no good
I'll be saving to get used model 3 in 6 years or so
the only company which kind of proved longevity of the battery pack/motors is tesla, which is the only concern for me
although it's second generation cells now and whatever was proven for the first gen does not necessarily apply
still tesla claims 300k designed-in battery pack lifetime which they yet plan to bring to 1million miles..

[Jocko]

afair new leaf still has passive battery cooling.. no good

I didn't think it was. Thought it had an air cooling system, but we will see once it hits the road here in the UK.

[dg]

pardon, that's what I meant, it does not have liquid cooling which arguably caused 1st gen to degrade

[peteo48]

pardon, that's what I meant, it does not have liquid cooling which arguably caused 1st gen to degrade

I have a friend who has a 24kwh Leaf from 2014. His has done just under 50,000 miles and he still has all 12 bars and the last test showed it had 92% battery state of health. In the UK the lack of cooling doesn't seem to be that much of an issue but it has been a huge issue in hotter parts of the USA.

[dg]

8% degradation over 5y/50k is not too bad but not good either especially for low capacity packs
I'm more interested it capacity at 120k-150k, i.e. if degeneration is progressive, etc
30% loss at 150k would be really bad

[culzean]

Problem with BEV is that they carry around a huge heavy lump of a battery and only ever have access to 50% of it, they reserve the bottom 30% and top 20% from new to limit the depth of charge and discharge ( depth of discharge or DoD is the killer for batteries,  the greater the amount of capacity that gets used and replaced the more the battery gets damaged ) and as the battery ages and the capacity drops the algorithm allows progressively more and more access to this 'reserved' area to try to keep the range of the vehicle near where it should be ( but don't succeed by the reports I have read ) - problem is by allowing greater depth of discharge the battery is damaged progressively more,  so a bit of a vicious circle, as the worse the battery gets, the worse it gets.    Fast charging also damages battery,  which is why the bloke who bought a new leaf sued Nissan as he could only get 60% of claimed range and only fast charge once a day ( he sat on motorway services, mid journey for 3 hours waiting for it to recharge,  not the advertised 40 minutes to 80% or whatever Nissan claimed).   The range of a BEV is still AFAIK arrived at by traveling steady 50mph on a flat road,  motorways and hills can really knock a hole in the claimed figures.  The other thing is battery charging is non-linear,  so 40 minutes to 80% sounds as though another 20 minutes may get you to 100%,  but may well turn into over 2 hours to 100% - people who advertise cars choose their phrasing very carefully and hope people assume the rest

IMHO BEV are maybe OK as a second car ( but an expensive one ), but range anxiety is still a problem.

I have a friend who has a 24kwh Leaf from 2014. His has done just under 50,000 miles and he still has all 12 bars and the last test showed it had 92% battery state of health.

Given the 50% usage that increases as battery ages algorithm that BEV use, how they work out the total degradation is a bit of a mystery......

[MartinJG]

I was speaking to jeangenie a couple of days ago and she is going to buy a Nissan Leaf. She is waiting on the new 60kWh e+, due in the UK in the summer. She hasn't fallen out of love with the Jazz, but her boss is allowing employees with electric cars to charge them for free at her office. Seemingly he is a bit of an eco warrior. I am sure she will be back here nearer the time, to keep us all informed.

Let's hope he doesn't change his mind.

[MartinJG]

I am sure the seat adjustment must either be stuck or incorrectly adjusted. As mentioned already, the seat height adjuster can catch people out. For some reason, they all seem to move back and forth slightly as well as up and down. I tried the Jazz Mk3 out of interest and being a 6'1" ish (well at the start of the day anyway), the first thing I noticed was slightly reduced legroom. I found the MK2 driving position and leg space much better for some reason. In fact, a better car altogether in my view. I recently tried out the Mazda MX-5 MK4. The legroom is definitely worse than the MK3 to the extent that I could barely get into the damned thing. It's bad enough trying to adapt to gravity at bum height without having to cope with shoehorning yourself into the driving seat as well. Not sure what these people are on but it seems to have escaped their attention that each progressive generation is getting taller. Perhaps someone forgot to enter that minor detail into the development programme. Nothing like shooting yourself in the foot when it comes to marketing and sales in an already difficult market. Nuts.

[culzean]

I was speaking to jeangenie a couple of days ago and she is going to buy a Nissan Leaf. She is waiting on the new 60kWh e+, due in the UK in the summer. She hasn't fallen out of love with the Jazz, but her boss is allowing employees with electric cars to charge them for free at her office. Seemingly he is a bit of an eco warrior. I am sure she will be back here nearer the time, to keep us all informed.

Let's hope he doesn't change his mind.

Like most things it is OK when only a few people do it, boss may change his mind when too many people want to use chargers and he has to pay to have whole car park kitted out...

[peteo48]

Problem with BEV is that they carry around a huge heavy lump of a battery and only ever have access to 50% of it, they reserve the bottom 30% and top 20% from new to limit the depth of charge and discharge ( depth of discharge or DoD is the killer for batteries,  the greater the amount of capacity that gets used and replaced the more the battery gets damaged ) and as the battery ages and the capacity drops the algorithm allows progressively more and more access to this 'reserved' area to try to keep the range of the vehicle near where it should be ( but don't succeed by the reports I have read ) - problem is by allowing greater depth of discharge the battery is damaged progressively more,  so a bit of a vicious circle, as the worse the battery gets, the worse it gets.    Fast charging also damages battery,  which is why the bloke who bought a new leaf sued Nissan as he could only get 60% of claimed range and only fast charge once a day ( he sat on motorway services, mid journey for 3 hours waiting for it to recharge,  not the advertised 40 minutes to 80% or whatever Nissan claimed).   The range of a BEV is still AFAIK arrived at by traveling steady 50mph on a flat road,  motorways and hills can really knock a hole in the claimed figures.  The other thing is battery charging is non-linear,  so 40 minutes to 80% sounds as though another 20 minutes may get you to 100%,  but may well turn into over 2 hours to 100% - people who advertise cars choose their phrasing very carefully and hope people assume the rest

IMHO BEV are maybe OK as a second car ( but an expensive one ), but range anxiety is still a problem.

I have a friend who has a 24kwh Leaf from 2014. His has done just under 50,000 miles and he still has all 12 bars and the last test showed it had 92% battery state of health.

Given the 50% usage that increases as battery ages algorithm that BEV use, how they work out the total degradation is a bit of a mystery......

I'm as far from being an expert on the technology as it is possible to get but I have had a few lifts in my pal's Leaf and, fully charged, he seems able squeeze 95 to 100 miles in the summer and about 85 in the winter. Of course this is nowhere near the now discredited EDC figures of 124 miles.

Most of the time, the range is adequate for him but it is his only car and he does admit longer journeys can be problematic. Costs him buttons to run though.

Still too many compromises for me. I always say 200 miles at 70 mph in the rain with every electrical appliance on and I might be interested. We are some way from that being available on an affordable EV.

The other issue is the public charging network. It's a joke and not a funny one.