Bubbles on alloy wheels

[culzean]

Third set of discs and pads in about 50k, they have corroded away, not worn out.

Had this issue out with Honda UK and got nowhere.  Makes me wonder how many Jazz's are being driven around with ineffective rear brakes that won't get picked up in the first 3yrs and after that will only get picked up at MOT.

Not really Honda's fault, it is caused by gentle driving meaning the rear brakes are hardly used. I have never had this common problem with any car, I can't think why. :-)

Seriously though, if you are a light brake user press the brake pedal hard for a few seconds while stopped in traffic. It will move the brake pads up to the discs and take up any slack in the calipers, sharpen up the brakes and improve the brake feel. This is why the brakes often feel better after a service when the brakes have not been any more than illuminated with a torch. An occasional hard braking from motorway speeds will do the brakes far more good than harm. If you don't use them they become a sized up lump of rust.

The gentle driving thing is not true in my case I can assure you, I drive the car more than she does (i.e. if I am in the car with her I always drive, she just walks to the passenger door and smiles ). When I drive on my own (because her Jazz is at top of drive and I can't be arr5ed to swap them over ) i will often brake hard and sometimes pull the hand take on while moving, so much for rear brakes not getting used. The rear disc thing  does not happen on my Civic, they are in good condition and no uneven wear or rust,  it seems to be a Jazz thing.

[Skyrider]

In your case there must be a reason for it. I have always driven my cars to dry off the brakes after washing them and never put a car in a garage wet. Also the car is used daily. Every little helps. :-)

[Rory]

Not really Honda's fault, it is caused by gentle driving meaning the rear brakes are hardly used. I have never had this common problem with any car, I can't think why. :-)

Seriously though, if you are a light brake user press the brake pedal hard for a few seconds while stopped in traffic. It will move the brake pads up to the discs and take up any slack in the calipers, sharpen up the brakes and improve the brake feel. This is why the brakes often feel better after a service when the brakes have not been any more than illuminated with a torch. An occasional hard braking from motorway speeds will do the brakes far more good than harm. If you don't use them they become a sized up lump of rust.

Gentle driving isn't my daughter's thing - she's quite a "positive" driver and the commute she does takes in everything from 30-70 roads and a lot of traffic lights.  The front pads don't have much life left but I expect that's not been helped by reduced braking from the rear.

Years ago garages would strip and clean brakes at service, and even recently they'd spray brake cleaner all over them - so the brakes would feel better when you got the car back. 

Honda doesn't do that sort of thing at all now and that was part of the point I argued with them - if they don't service the brakes then they should be designed to work in normal UK conditions for their service life.  The dealer suggested I should jet-wash the callipers, which just seems bonkers to me.

[Skyrider]

If you are not activating the ABS you are not braking hard, a daily commute with a few traffic lights is not hard braking. I am a light brake user, I avoid using them if possible. I would only brake hard on an empty straight dry road. My calipers get jetwashed every time I wash the car and wheels, but they are dried by driving afterwards. If you don't use and maintain a car it will let you down or become expensive. If you know that Honda is not maintaining your brakes do it yourself once a year or if you dont know how to or have the tools take it to someone who can do it. I used to do it, now when my cars are out of warranty a good local independent garage does it.

The way I see car ownership is "You own an expensive machine, either look after it or it will turn into an unreliable pile of rusty junk". It is the owners resposibility, blaming anyone else for the state of a car is a non starter for me. Sorry if that sounds tough but that's life.

[Skyrider]

I have just checked my cars service schedule, it only mentions "brake inspections", that only needs a torch, nothing about strip, clean, lubricate, etc.

[culzean]

If you activate the ABS on a dry road, even on the rear you are definitely braking far too hard.  I never wash my car,  and would never let a jetwash anywhere near the brakes, that is really bad practice, there have been incidents when brake hoses have been cut by a jetwash and even so you will just force water past the bellows and seals and wash any grease that is in there away.  I may not wash and polish our cars,  but trust me mechanically they are pampered (because polishing your car does nothing to make it more reliable, I do our servicing of our cars and would much rather spend money on brake grease than car wax).   My wifes Jazz is just coming up to 60,000 miles in 6 years,  so hardly lack of use causing the disc problems.   Our cars also get winters tyres and steel rims for 6 months of the year,  these protect the brakes much better than alloys (and save your nice alloys from a lot of corrosion).

I will have to see how the Eicher rear discs and Brembo pad combination works,  up until now I have used Honda discs and pads,  so the problem may be with those.

[culzean]

Gentle driving isn't my daughter's thing - she's quite a "positive" driver and the commute she does takes in everything from 30-70 roads and a lot of traffic lights.  The front pads don't have much life left but I expect that's not been helped by reduced braking from the rear.

Years ago garages would strip and clean brakes at service, and even recently they'd spray brake cleaner all over them - so the brakes would feel better when you got the car back. 

Honda doesn't do that sort of thing at all now and that was part of the point I argued with them - if they don't service the brakes then they should be designed to work in normal UK conditions for their service life.  The dealer suggested I should jet-wash the callipers, which just seems bonkers to me.

A  modern service is just an oil change and a stamp in your service book, which is what you are really paying £££'s for ( if you are lucky they may change the oil filter) all other things tend to be 'inspect and change / replace if required (and this is never needed LOL).  They will also let you get a cup of tea or coffee from their machine in reception with small cardboard cups,  and read a boring magazine if you turn up early for the car. 

Oh and they get the apprentice to clean your car, which makes it feel much better when you drive away with just the new oil from a no-name 45 gallon drum in the corner of the workshop swilling around in the sump.....

I have just checked my cars service schedule, it only mentions "brake inspections", that only needs a torch, nothing about strip, clean, lubricate, etc.

Looking at the brakes with a torch tells you very little,  even if you take the wheels off to do it (which they don't) you cannot hardly even see inner brake pads properly even with wheel off unless you have one of those medical endoscopy cameras that can bend around sharp corners.  The only way to tell if calipers are equalising properly about the disc is to check the freedom of the slide pins - which you cannot do without unbolting the caliper.  Rory took his car in several times complaining about a squealing noise from brakes and was fobbed off, turned out the inner pad was almost non existent and the squealing was the brake wear indicator.  This uneven wear (the outer pad was OK) was because slide pins had seized up (probably from dealer jet washing the grease out) it just shows you how well trained and interested the staff in modern dealer franchises are, most of them probably started out selling double glazing and have an NVQ ( Not Very Qualified) in bull5sh!t.

[Skyrider]

I have a pressure washer, the nozzle never gets within a metre of the car.

[Rory]

The way I see car ownership is "You own an expensive machine, either look after it or it will turn into an unreliable pile of rusty junk". It is the owners resposibility, blaming anyone else for the state of a car is a non starter for me. Sorry if that sounds tough but that's life.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this.  As far as I'm concerned, consumables, such as brakes, should last until they wear out, or some equivalent length of time for lower mileage cars.  Other daughters Golf had to have pads and discs all round last year 70K miles/6yrs old.  I'm perfectly happy with that.   

Jazz wearing one pad at 20K/3yrs is not acceptable to me.  Not just the cost, but I'm dismayed that she'd been driving around in a car with some degree of a brake issue.  The dealer looked at the car and declared it to be OK.  It was only looked at further as I made a fuss.  How many other Honda drivers have cars in the same state?

[Rory]

I have a pressure washer, the nozzle never gets within a metre of the car.

The dealer was suggesting getting the lance in behind the wheel and blasting the calliper.

Apart from blasting all the grease etc out of the calliper and sliders, a neighbour whose son works for a car manufacturer said they'd been warned about using jet washers near brakes as they had a brake failure on car which they reckon was caused by a jet washer damaging a flexible brake hose.

[culzean]

I have a pressure washer, the nozzle never gets within a metre of the car.

In that case no point in using a pressure washer then, as the force drops very quickly as you move the jet away and at one metre  a normal garden hose spray with a shampoo stick will give you as much pressure and cleaning at that range - we have two pressure washers and they only get used on the patio.  Pressure sprays do not increase the volume of water,  that is fixed by the amount the tap and hose can supply,  they just intensify the pressure and use a smaller nozzle, but only useful if that smaller nozzle is within less than a foot of the target (or on the patio 5 to 10mm away).

There is a lot of evidence that using pressure washers can damage tyre sidewalls and actually strip paint and adhesive balance weights off alloys,  damage brake hoses and wash lubrication off and force water past seals, as well as damage radiator cooling fins. As for cleaning bikes and motorbikes,  washing the lube off the chain and forcing water past seals into bearings are just a few of the nasty things  A pressure washer has no place being used on anything except patios (and even then you find the moss and stuff comes back quicker because the high pressure breaks up the surface of the slabs and makes more places for stuff to grow).   Even the cheapest no-name pressure washer will give over 100Bar (1500 PSI) and some up to 180 / 200 bar.   If you love your car or bike or motorbike don't let a pressure washer near it,  it is just a lazy mans tool of choice, and a bit macho.

[Skyrider]

Having used pressure washers for several decades without damaging anything I think I can manage.

[Rory]

Having used pressure washers for several decades without damaging anything I think I can manage.

At a metre+ away all you're doing is rinsing the car.  So you'll be pretty safe.

[Ozzie]

On my previous Jazz, I had a small area of bubbling on one alloy wheel, and the main dealer said it wasn't covered by warranty.
I phoned Honda UK Customer Service and they said they would replace the wheel as a goodwill gesture. That was at 100k.
At 240k I had all 4 wheels shotblasted and resprayed for £80 so it was no big deal if Honda didn't cover it.

[Skyrider]

Having used pressure washers for several decades without damaging anything I think I can manage.

At a metre+ away all you're doing is rinsing the car.  So you'll be pretty safe.

Exactly, its the block paved areas and slabbed paths that get the serious washing.