Centre line jacking points for Jazz?

[guest6935]

Hi,

We bought a new Jazz SE May 2017 (UK spec, GK chassis).  Thanks to this forum (and despite advice to the contrary from the dealer, and Honda’s refusal to comment), I found it would have space for a 5th road wheel rather than a repair kit or space saver.  I managed to get a matching alloy wheel at far less than the dealer’s quoted price, and had a matching tyre fitted.

With 5 wheels, I’d like to rotate them to equalize tyre wear.  With previous cars, I’ve found the way that works best for me is to jack up the front end of the car with a trolley jack, and put axle stands under the roadside wheel change jacking points on the side behind the front wheels, then jack up the rear and put stands under the side jacking points in front of the rear wheels.  With the car fully off the ground I can then swap wheels whichever way seems best.

With the Jazz, I’m not sure where I should jack it.  At the rear, my previous cars have had a rear axle formed of a thick pressed steel channel, and I’ve jacked under the middle of this.  The rear axle of the Jazz seems to be made of a thinner-walled steel tube flattened and then formed into a channel shape.  Is this rear axle robust enough to take the weight of the rear of the car in its centre?  (Photo uploaded with front of the car at the top.)

The underside of the front of our Jazz is mostly covered with flimsy plastic sheeting.  There is one patch not covered, more or less between the rear half of the front wheels, trapezium-shaped and wider at the front than the rear.  There is a large bolt through this, and my photo of the underside shows a mark of yellow paint extending backwards from the bolt.  Is any of this area able to take the weight of the car?  I can’t see any alternative sites.  (Photo uploaded with front of the car at the top.)

Can anyone advise me where to jack our Jazz?

With thanks in advance,
Chris

[culzean]

Jack it using the proper reinforced points just behind front wheels and just in front of rear wheels.  Jacking anywhere else is asking for trouble.

That 'rear axle' as you call it is a torsion beam member for rear suspension, it is thin wall and carefully designed to twist - easily damaged as well.

I would use two jacks and maybe axle stands as well,  one each side in proper place if you really must raise the whole front or rear end.

[Steve_M]

You can jack the front with a trolley jack on the area you identified just behind the front wheel axis and for the rear on the rear towing loop.

Other wise the side sill reinforced points are the only areas to bare load ( jack or stands)

[Skyrider]

DO NOT jack the rear of the car on the torsion beam axle, you can bend it.

[guest6935]

That 'rear axle' as you call it is a torsion beam member for rear suspension, it is thin wall and carefully designed to twist - easily damaged as well.

I realize it’s a torsion beam; using them has been fine on previous cars, but I thought the one on the Jazz looked less robust, which is why I’ve asked about using it.

I would use two jacks and maybe axle stands as well,  one each side in proper place if you really must raise the whole front or rear end.

Could you clarify the above please?  The proper reinforced points are where I would like to finish with the car supported on axle stands, much more stable and reliable than one or more jacks.  But if I position a jack on one of these points, I didn’t think I’d be able to transfer the weight onto an axle stand.  That’s why I was hoping there would be other points I could use temporarily to lift the car, and lifting the whole of one end at a time avoids torsional loads.  Is it possible to transfer the weight from a jack to an axle stand using only the suggested points?

With thanks for your help,
Chris

[guest6935]

You can jack the front with a trolley jack on the area you identified just behind the front wheel axis and for the rear on the rear towing loop.

In a previous search on this subject, I found a post on the American “fitfreak” forum, relating to the previous generation of Jazz/Fit, where some were suggesting using the towing hook, and others were making the point that it wasn’t designed for lifting the car, which seems likely.  (According to that site, the previous generation of Jazz/Fits were provided with a plate near the rear for jacking.)

Thanks again,
Chris

[culzean]

At front I use jack under cill hardpoint and when wheel is off I fit axle stand under where main suspension arm attaches to body,  The rear of the car is much lighter than front (fuel tank is forward of car centre) so on rear you can use a piece of wood between axle stand and cill.   Surely if you have 5 wheels there is no need to jack up more than one wheel at a time.  I have never rotated tyres as the ones on same axle wear at same rate anyway,  and on Honda seem to wear evenly across the tread as well.  I just replace the worn ones in axle sets, most all season and winter tyres have directional tread pattern with rotation arrows on sidewall and have to stay on same side of vehicle, so can only move between front and rear anyway.

I stopped using trolley jack on our tarmac drive when body of jack refused to move on the tarmac (wheels hitting gravel or digging in) and instead the arm decided to move in relation to car body as the jack was raised,  I may use a trolley jack on smooth concrete garage floor but non of our cars has ever been in the garage (that is for motorbikes and garden stuff).

Don't worry about torsional loads the body is designed to take them,  but I would worry about damage that can be caused by using inappropriate jacking points.

[Steve_M]

You can jack the front with a trolley jack on the area you identified just behind the front wheel axis and for the rear on the rear towing loop.

In a previous search on this subject, I found a post on the American “fitfreak” forum, relating to the previous generation of Jazz/Fit, where some were suggesting using the towing hook, and others were making the point that it wasn’t designed for lifting the car, which seems likely.  (According to that site, the previous generation of Jazz/Fits were provided with a plate near the rear for jacking.)

Thanks again,
Chris

That information I provided if from the workshop manual.

You should only use the vehicle jack on the side sills, but can use a suitable trolley jack on those cantered jack points.

[guest6935]

At front I use jack under cill hardpoint and when wheel is off I fit axle stand under where main suspension arm attaches to body,

I think where the main suspension arm attaches to body must be just of the edge of my photo of the underside, a bit nearer the top than the bottom of the picture.  I guess that, if I can get a jack under there, with some plywood padding, there’s no reason why I shouldn’t jack the car from that point so that I’ll be able to lower the car onto an axle stand under the cill hardpoint.

The rear of the car is much lighter than front (fuel tank is forward of car centre) so on rear you can use a piece of wood between axle stand and cill.

Do you mean you just position the axle stand as close to the jack as possible, although it might be beyond the hardpoint section of the cill?  (I always use slotted, shaped wooden blocks to take the load between the axle stand and cill.)

Surely if you have 5 wheels there is no need to jack up more than one wheel at a time.  I have never rotated tyres as the ones on same axle wear at same rate anyway,  and on Honda seem to wear evenly across the tread as well.  I just replace the worn ones in axle sets, most all season and winter tyres have directional tread pattern with rotation arrows on sidewall and have to stay on same side of vehicle, so can only move between front and rear anyway.

There are two reasons why I’d rather get the whole car up on axle stands.  One is safety - if I only jack next to one wheel, most of the weight is balance between the lifting point and the wheel diagonally opposite.  I bought a scissor jack in case we need to change the wheel at the roadside, but it has a very small, and so unstable, base.  With the trolley jack, I’d be uneasy about it staying up, and also there is a possibility that it might roll on our sloping concrete drive.  I could change a wheel whilst keeping well clear of where the car could fall, but would feel very uneasy checking brake discs, etc.  But a car on four axle stands (or axle stands at one end, with the other end on chocked wheels), is very stable.

My other reason is avoiding unnecessary work.  Our Jazz was supplied with Michelin Energy Saver + 185/60R15 84H tyres, which aren’t directional (otherwise I’d need two spare wheels, I might have the wrong one in the car if we found a flat tyre, and I don’t suppose it would be worthwhile).  With previous cars, I’ve always found that tyres wear somewhat unevenly between the two sides; I guess that’s due to roundabouts and other features associated with driving on the left, rather than the extra weight of the driver on one side of the car.  The first time I rotate the tyres, I’ll want to put the unused spare where the most worn tyre is, and that one should become the new spare.  But to cycle the others as well, jacking only one wheel at a time, I’d need to fit a wheel temporarily, and remove it again when I’d freed the intended one.

I stopped using trolley jack on our tarmac drive when body of jack refused to move on the tarmac (wheels hitting gravel or digging in) and instead the arm decided to move in relation to car body as the jack was raised,  I may use a trolley jack on smooth concrete garage floor but non of our cars has ever been in the garage (that is for motorbikes and garden stuff).

As I mentioned above, our drive is concrete, and rather rough for the trolley jack’s small steel wheels, but I do manage OK despite the slope.  It’s a long time since there was room to put the car in the garage and work sheltered from the weather on a smooth, level surface!

You’ve been really helpful, thank you, but I’d be grateful if you could confirm that I’ve understood you correctly, particularly regarding using a jack and then axle stand at the rear.

with thanks,
Chris

[guest6935]

You can jack the front with a trolley jack on the area you identified just behind the front wheel axis and for the rear on the rear towing loop.

In a previous search on this subject, I found a post on the American “fitfreak” forum, relating to the previous generation of Jazz/Fit, where some were suggesting using the towing hook, and others were making the point that it wasn’t designed for lifting the car, which seems likely.  (According to that site, the previous generation of Jazz/Fits were provided with a plate near the rear for jacking.)

Thanks again,
Chris

That information I provided if from the workshop manual.

You should only use the vehicle jack on the side sills, but can use a suitable trolley jack on those cantered jack points.

Thanks again Steve.  If the workshop manual says it’s OK to use a jack on those points, I’m sure it will be easier, quicker and better balanced than jacking one side at a time.  But I’d be grateful if you could be a bit more specific on just where on that plate between the front wheels with the large bolt through it I should position the jack.

With thanks,
Chris

[guest5079]

In the online workshop manual for the MK2 there is an illustration which shows that the Jazz can be jacked  under the centre front and the centre rear. I would strongly advise referring to the manual BEFORE doing so to ensure you have the correct points. Using anywhere other than where illustrated will be very expensive. It mentions specifically using these  jacking points to enable axle stands to be placed under the four jacking points on the car.
Hope this is of use.

[Steve_M]

Jack on the rectangular part with the 2 small holes, that is the reinforced part of the subframe. I’d use a rubber jack top cover to avoid metal to metal contact.

[guest6935]

In the online workshop manual for the MK2 there is an illustration which shows that the Jazz can be jacked  under the centre front and the centre rear. I would strongly advise referring to the manual BEFORE doing so to ensure you have the correct points. Using anywhere other than where illustrated will be very expensive. It mentions specifically using these  jacking points to enable axle stands to be placed under the four jacking points on the car.
Hope this is of use.

Thanks for trying to help.
I eventually found the appropriate section in a manual (if anyone else is looking for it, I found the manual at http://hondafitjazz.com/manual3/index.html and the information about jacking points right at the beginning, in the ‘General Information’ section under ‘Lift and Support Points’; I should have started at the beginning, but of course browsed through the list of main sections, and tried various others such as ‘Maintenance’ before opening the ‘General Information’ contents list).  Unfortunately, the diagrams intended to show the location of the jacking points are so sketchy that, even if I had a type GE Jazz, I don’t think I’d be able to work out which part of the car they show.  All I could divine is that they’re along the centre line, which is where I would like to jack our Jazz, and that the rear one clearly doesn’t show jacking the towing loop.  (But I don’t think the GE type Jazz had a permanent steel rod towing loop like our GK version, and I think a post on the American “fitfreak” forum asking for jacking points referred to their having a plate near the rear for jacking.)

Does anyone know if and where there might be a workshop manual for type GK Jazzs freely available online?

With thanks,
Chris

[guest6935]

Jack on the rectangular part with the 2 small holes, that is the reinforced part of the subframe. I’d use a rubber jack top cover to avoid metal to metal contact.

Brilliant thanks Steve.  I think I now have all the information I need before I actually get to work (which needs a suitable opportunity and decent weather, so might not be for a bit).  I don’t have a rubber cover for my jack head, but for previous cars I’ve sometimes made plywood heads to ensure accurate non-slip location, and avoid undue point loads.  I’d better get the car up on ramps and see what I need.

By the way, my adult son was taking notes of the orientation, etc, when I took my photos, and he described the area in the middle of my photo under the front as the “smiley face”.  So I just need to remember to locate the jack across its eyes!


Thank you so much,
Chris