Author Topic: new honda jazz  (Read 19801 times)

peteo48

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Re: new honda jazz
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2017, 11:47:51 AM »
On the issue of CVT we have discussed this many times before. Most motoring journalists don't like CVT boxes which are also found in Toyotas as well as Hondas.

I still haven't driven one but, last week, I got a lift in a friends Mk 2 1.4 EX with the CVT box. I have to say it would drive me mad. Accelerating up a hill was sluggish and the car was noisy under acceleration as well. He admitted he wasn't happy with it preferring the old I shift on his previous Jazz.

They are not for me and that's somebody who does a lot of town work. What I found interesting was comparing this experience to a journey in a Nissan Leaf as a passenger. Of course, with no engineering background, I don't understand the difference but the single reduction gear in the Leaf is something I could live with - there was no obvious strain under hard acceleration.

I think the new Jazz might be quite fun with a manual box.

JazzyB

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Jocko

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Re: new honda jazz
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2017, 12:38:10 PM »
No mention of the 1.0L, 3 cylinder turbo then.

peteo48

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Re: new honda jazz
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2017, 02:06:14 PM »
Just wonder if the 5 speed box for the standard car is just an error in the article? Can't see them going back to a 5 speed.

andruec

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Re: new honda jazz
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2017, 05:36:51 PM »
On the issue of CVT we have discussed this many times before. Most motoring journalists don't like CVT boxes which are also found in Toyotas as well as Hondas.
Good, because motoring journalists are petrol head idiots. The fact they don't like them is a good thing. Sensible people understand that.
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I still haven't driven one but, last week, I got a lift in a friends Mk 2 1.4 EX with the CVT box. I have to say it would drive me mad. Accelerating up a hill was sluggish and the car was noisy under acceleration as well. He admitted he wasn't happy with it preferring the old I shift on his previous Jazz.
So your friend can't drive. Shame. The CVT box is only sluggish if you get caught out by the Atkinson cycle. A good driver soon learns to work around that. Preferring manual to CVT is one thing but your friend is in a very small minority if they prefer the i-Shift. Even Honda admit it was a bad decision. Your friend's opinion is clearly not worth the time it would take to listen to.
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I think the new Jazz might be quite fun with a manual box.
Possibly. If your idea of fun is pulling a stupid lever and pressing a silly pedal. I prefer to concentrate on those aspects of driving that require my unique abilities. Choosing a gear ratio is something a dumb computer can do.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 05:40:54 PM by andruec »

Skyrider

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Re: new honda jazz
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2017, 06:29:59 PM »
Automatic small cars are for domestic appliance users not drivers.

My initial thought was the five speed box statement was an error made by an ignorant journalist, we shall see before long!
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 06:32:56 PM by Deeps »

DaveBerks

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Re: new honda jazz
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2017, 10:54:15 PM »
The main issue seems to me to be the fact that a 1.5 engine will deliver better low down torque and 0-60 time at the expense of greater fuel consumption. In other words it delivers a sportier drive but at higher expense. The 1.5 is the standard Jazz/Fit engine in the far east and Australia and the US as far as I am aware, although I think the 1.3 is available in Australia. Fuel consumption seems to be less of an issue for buyers there.  Diesels and a Hybrid version are available in India and the Far East I think. Presumably Honda feel that given the small numbers of Jazz sold in Europe and given Toyota's massive lead on Hybrid and the limited fuel benefit of hybrid over the 1.3 petrol, they cannot justify  importing the hybrid version. And, Hybrids have never delivered the official fuel consumption figures which seemed to be promised.

The buyers of the Civic who can't afford the higher powered 1.5 turbo petrol will happily buy the 1.0 turbo despite the poor fuel economy (compared to official figures) of turbo petrol cars (see Honest John's Real Miles Per Gallon website). After all these small turbos seem to be in every other small family car of similar size (did I say small ? :o). However it is generally cost and reliability conscious types who buy the Jazz, and as the 1.5 engine is already tried and tested elsewhere and a low risk for Honda to put into the Jazz imported into Europe for the few that will buy them.  It lacks the downsized 'I'm a sexy little beast' image of a testosterone fuelled power bomb 1.0 turbo of course, but addresses the criticism of relative sleuth that has been levelled at the 1.3 (which is designed for low speed economy rather than low speed performance, rather like hybrid ;D).  It all comes down to image and how quickly you really want to get away from the lights. The new car will widen choice and improve the car's image amongst younger drivers in the UK and give the motoring journos something to get mildly interested in.  Just my thoughts.......

Skyrider

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Re: new honda jazz
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2017, 08:14:09 AM »

Jocko

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Re: new honda jazz
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2017, 09:27:38 AM »
Which may well explain why the 1.0 L, 3 cylinder turbo engine appears to have died on the vine.

culzean

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Re: new honda jazz
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2017, 09:42:01 AM »
Automatic small cars are for domestic appliance users not drivers.

+10

Automatics have their place,  If I spent nearly all my time in city driving may even consider one, but being as I live in one of the least populated counties in UK don't need one and can spare some of my 'unique abilities' ( LOL ) to change gear - (not playing with infotainment etc.) a properly driven manual can get better fuel consumption than an auto ( so much for computers knowing better eh).  I did put a link to an American study on 'electric cars thread' that suggested that as modern cars get more and more gadgets and drivers have less and less to do on the driving side the accident rate is rising.  Anyway if you have a manual box the excercise keeps you 'Fit' in your Jazz.............  ( I don't want to get deep vein thrombosis in my left leg).

http://driving.ca/auto-news/news/as-robots-take-the-wheel-driving-skills-begin-to-hit-the-skids

http://driving.ca/auto-news/news/motor-mouth-people-can-still-drive-better-than-computers-when-we-want-to

Just had a thought,  maybe car makers aren't too concerned about higher rates of accidents as when autonomous cars come good (if ever) even if the accident rates only drop back to 'pre driver aids' levels they can say autonomous cars are safer LOL

« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 12:20:30 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: new honda jazz
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2017, 10:36:08 AM »
I used to find that "driving" my automatic, with cruise control on, was a real task of concentration. It was so easy for the mind to wander, especially on quiet dual carriageways or motorways.

peteo48

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Re: new honda jazz
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2017, 12:59:11 PM »


Automatics have their place,  If I spent nearly all my time in city driving may even consider one, but being as I live in one of the least populated counties in UK don't need one and can spare some of my 'unique abilities' ( LOL ) to change gear - (not playing with infotainment etc.) a properly driven manual can get better fuel consumption than an auto ( so much for computers knowing better eh).  I did put a link to an American study on 'electric cars thread' that suggested that as modern cars get more and more gadgets and drivers have less and less to do on the driving side the accident rate is rising.  Anyway if you have a manual box the excercise keeps you 'Fit' in your Jazz.............  ( I don't want to get deep vein thrombosis in my left leg).

http://driving.ca/auto-news/news/as-robots-take-the-wheel-driving-skills-begin-to-hit-the-skids

http://driving.ca/auto-news/news/motor-mouth-people-can-still-drive-better-than-computers-when-we-want-to

Just had a thought,  maybe car makers aren't too concerned about higher rates of accidents as when autonomous cars come good (if ever) even if the accident rates only drop back to 'pre driver aids' levels they can say autonomous cars are safer LOL

Interesting stuff. I can see the argument that the halfway house we have now - more automatic transmissions, more adaptive cruise control, lane departure warnings etc etc could have exactly that consequence. Complacency in front of the wheel. If you combine that with the infotainment systems now as standard on a whole range of vehicles the drive may be complacent AND distracted.

I've got the hands free telephone system that came with my Jazz. I don't get many incoming calls but there is no doubt that your attention dips even when the phone starts to ring.

Jocko

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Re: new honda jazz
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2017, 02:04:36 PM »
A similar example are the two airline pilots who got distracted and flew an hour beyond their destination. If it hadn't been for the cabin staff asking "are we there yet" they'd be flying yet. Automation needs to be complete or it runs big risks.

peteo48

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Re: new honda jazz
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2017, 02:12:22 PM »
So your friend can't drive. Shame. The CVT box is only sluggish if you get caught out by the Atkinson cycle. A good driver soon learns to work around that. Preferring manual to CVT is one thing but your friend is in a very small minority if they prefer the i-Shift. Even Honda admit it was a bad decision. Your friend's opinion is clearly not worth the time it would take to listen to.
Quote
I think the new Jazz might be quite fun with a manual box.
Possibly. If your idea of fun is pulling a stupid lever and pressing a silly pedal. I prefer to concentrate on those aspects of driving that require my unique abilities. Choosing a gear ratio is something a dumb computer can do.
[/quote]

Yes I was aware that most people didn't like the I shift. My friend has an automatic mainly because it is easier on his arthritic knees.

Anyway - I'm seeing him next week and will gladly pass on any advice as to how to drive these things without the whining sound. I must admit we were on our way to a lunch meeting and this involved a stretch on the M60, some urban driving and then a long ascent of a steep hill out in the country just north of Oldham. The car certainly seemed very much at home in the urban setting but less so going up the hill or on the motorway.

Horses for courses I guess.

Downsizer

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Re: new honda jazz
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2017, 06:20:33 PM »
The Honda newsfeed about the facelift includes the following: "The CVT system itself has been revised to deliver a more linear and refined response under acceleration."  What does this mean?  Presumably it's a software change, so if it's an improvement, it should be possible to incorporate it into existing cars by means of a software update.  On the other hand, it may apply only to the 1.5 litre version, where fuel economy is a lower priority.

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