Author Topic: Corroded Brake Pipe & Other Woes - ***Video Link Attached***. Updated Video June  (Read 1612 times)

Jocko

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Re: Corroded Brake Pipe & Other Woes - ***Video Link Attached***.
« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2021, 11:25:14 AM »
when 3 to 4 clicks was only needed in the past (when car new).
As the car is now almost 14 years old, the handbrake cable will be stretched and possibly somewhat elastic. Perhaps a new cable would solve your problems.

gtd2000

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Re: Corroded Brake Pipe & Other Woes - ***Video Link Attached***.
« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2021, 10:08:35 PM »
when 3 to 4 clicks was only needed in the past (when car new).
As the car is now almost 14 years old, the handbrake cable will be stretched and possibly somewhat elastic. Perhaps a new cable would solve your problems.

I suppose that could be a possibility but it appears there's still adjustment left in the cable when it's being adjusted.

I'll have a look into the price of cables and it might end up on the "to do list" when the weather improves.

gtd2000

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Re: Corroded Brake Pipe & Other Woes - ***Video Link Attached***.
« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2021, 10:14:22 PM »
I just had a look at the service manual. I couldn't find the instructions for rear disc brakes. These are for drum brakes.  See below.

It looks like I more or less followed the same procedure.  But I got a hunch with handbrake at 1 click position and one of the rear wheels starting to drag, the other one spun freely, so I think I may have adjusted it to ensure both wheels started to drag.

One issue with hand brake being fully locked at 9 or 10 clicks, is there is far too much travel in the handbrake lever in normal use (not steep hills).


Yes, shims are for anti-noise only.

---------------

1. Pull the parking brake lever (A) with 196 N (20 kgf, 44 lbf) of force to fully apply the parking brake. The parking brake lever should be locked within the specified number of clicks (B).

 Lever locked clicks: 7−10 




Adjustment 

NOTE: After servicing the rear brake shoe, loosen the parking brake adjusting nut, start the engine, and depress the brake pedal several times to set the self-adjusting brake before adjusting the parking brake.
 
1. Block the front wheels, then raise the rear of the vehicle, and make sure it is securely supported.

2. Remove the console cover.

3. Pull the parking brake lever up one click.

4. Tighten the adjusting nut (A) until the parking brakes drag slightly when the rear wheels are turned.
 
5. Release the parking brake lever fully, and check that the parking brakes do not drag when the rear wheels are turned. Readjust if necessary.
 
6. Make sure the parking brakes are fully applied when the parking brake lever is pulled up fully.

7. Reinstall the console cover.

I'll give that a go, hopefully next week, if the weather is fair.

To be honest, the brakes drag slightly, even without the handbrake connected with the natural effect of the supposedly adjusted brake pistons against the pads.

gtd2000

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Re: Corroded Brake Pipe & Other Woes - ***Video Link Attached***.
« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2021, 10:22:13 PM »
if I was pull the handbrake up further to 6 or more, it would hold the car but that requires far more effort than normal.
As I have said many times before, if you apply the footbrake firmly, then pull up the handbrake, it requires minimal effort and applies the handbrake firmly. I have never found a hill where the handbrake would not hold without slip, either facing uphill or down, using this method. It was a Honda mechanic who gave me this tip.

The advice, from the Honda mechanic, just sounds like repetition of normal behaviour to me?

I've never yet engaged a handbrake without having my foot on the brake after coming to a halt. If you are on a steep incline, your pressure on the pedal is likely to be increased. by comparison to parking on the level.

The other part of this scenario with the handbrake is that the MoT tester concurred that it was the same problem with the Honda Civic that he owned. The handbrake - as far as I'm aware - is a known weakness with the Jazz.

This rather old thread records that there were problems with the cars when virtually new:
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=65.0

gtd2000

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Re: Corroded Brake Pipe & Other Woes - ***Video Link Attached***.
« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2021, 10:35:59 PM »
Just came across this information below here:
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=4&t=65645

"The handbrake cables adjuster is absolutly not for adjusting the brake's.It is only for free play.Your's everybodys problem is that missunderstanding.Bear with me.The rear shoes or pads wear away in use.we all know that.so do the fronts.The piston seals act as a kind of spring ,retracting the pistons enough to allow free wheel,if not,sticky front caliper'sMOT fail.the rears also do this,good for freewheel ,not good for hand brake.So a mechanisim has to be used to limit how far back the rears retract.this is the self adjuster's.Self adjusters is missleading term,YOU unknowingly adjust them using the brake.Each time the hand brake is pulled on and released the adjusters move to take up slack,but only if the opperating lever on the caliper's is allowed to retract fully each time.tightening the cable means the caliper lever dosent have the travle to engage the adjusters.Rant over!!1your car,slacken and remove from caliper lever both cables,drown the caliper opperating lever inwd40,and free it off.Using a piston wind back tool,retract the pistons.fit pad's,replace calper,Now using the caliper lever,manually crank it untill pad's close up an less and less lever movement is avialiable,eventully the pad's grip the disc and lever can only move a little befor opperating the brake ,then and only then do you reattach the handbrake cble to caliper levers and adjust freeplay .If this dosent give the best brake possible,then the calpers are shot.probably because someone over tightened the cable and caliper lever/?/internals seized."

bill888

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Re: Corroded Brake Pipe & Other Woes - ***Video Link Attached***.
« Reply #35 on: March 01, 2021, 07:36:39 AM »
To be honest, the brakes drag slightly, even without the handbrake connected with the natural effect of the supposedly adjusted brake pistons against the pads.

Yes, the brakes do drag a bit with handbrake off, so make the adjustments so you feel the brakes drag a bit more when handbrake is on 1 click.  When you release the handbrake, check the additional drag has vanished and there is play in the cable at the rubber concertina boot at the caliper and to confirm it is not pulling pulling on the caliper.

For my car with factory fitted calipers and original pads:

Before adjustment (car was 9 years old in 2018):   9 clicks maximum (stretched cable?).   Car rolled on slight gradient with 3-4 clicks.   Held with 5-6 clicks.  Too much travel in handbrake lever imho.  Still passed MoT though.

After cable adjustment:   7 clicks maximum.   Car holds stationary with 3-4 clicks, like when car was New.


I'm no expert but I would have thought only new cables may be required if the original is seized and/or not moving freely, or has stretched so much to prevent any adjustments to compensate.

Other thought is as you just fitted new pads, perhaps they just need a bit of mileage to bed into the old discs too.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 08:26:44 AM by bill888 »
2007(57) Jazz 1.4SE CVT-7 (GE3 - made in China)

sparky Paul

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Re: Corroded Brake Pipe & Other Woes - ***Video Link Attached***.
« Reply #36 on: March 01, 2021, 10:45:02 AM »
I think specification for adjustment is 7-10 clicks for drums, 6-8 clicks for discs.

Note that the actual number of clicks varies by 1 or 2 as the pads wear between auto adjuster steps.

Jocko

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Re: Corroded Brake Pipe & Other Woes - ***Video Link Attached***.
« Reply #37 on: March 01, 2021, 01:02:24 PM »
Checked my Mk 1 handbrake this morning. It holds tight at 10 clicks, and the maximum is 12 clicks. So far, it has passed 4 MOTs with no mention of the handbrake.

sparky Paul

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Re: Corroded Brake Pipe & Other Woes - ***Video Link Attached***.
« Reply #38 on: March 01, 2021, 01:05:11 PM »
So far, it has passed 4 MOTs with no mention of the handbrake.

That's the main thing!  8)

gtd2000

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Re: Corroded Brake Pipe & Other Woes - ***Video Link Attached***.
« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2021, 12:49:09 PM »
Well, I had to revisit the handbrake performance issue this weekend once more.

New calipers were installed but the rear O/S had a tendency to "hank on" if pulled up too far.

I got in touch with the vendor who made some recommendations but did not solve the problem.

On Sunday I replaced the caliper sent out to replace the problem unit and I'm pleased with the outcome.

It really is much better than it's ever been now.

Here's an updated link but it's currently uploading at 12:52pm:
« Last Edit: June 08, 2021, 12:52:52 PM by gtd2000 »

Droneranger

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Thanks for the video, I have recently replaced my rear discs, calipers and pads on my GE3 model.
I bought the same calipers that you have just fitted, I also bought a pair of Juratek discs for just less then 20 ebay, which are coated so the Hats / Centres do not rust. The old discs I removed were nowhere near as bad as yours, I could have left them really, but I did not like to see the rusty Hats. I would not have fitted new pads to those discs on your car.
When you do come to change the rear discs, you will need to use a hammer and an impact driver to remove the two screws that hold the disc to the hub, this should be your first job after taking the wheel off.
I found there was no need to remove the Centre console, I just raised it enough at the back to get a socket on the adjusting nut.
Thanks again for taking the time to do the video.  :)

gtd2000

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Thanks for the video, I have recently replaced my rear discs, calipers and pads on my GE3 model.
I bought the same calipers that you have just fitted, I also bought a pair of Juratek discs for just less then 20 ebay, which are coated so the Hats / Centres do not rust. The old discs I removed were nowhere near as bad as yours, I could have left them really, but I did not like to see the rusty Hats. I would not have fitted new pads to those discs on your car.
When you do come to change the rear discs, you will need to use a hammer and an impact driver to remove the two screws that hold the disc to the hub, this should be your first job after taking the wheel off.
I found there was no need to remove the Centre console, I just raised it enough at the back to get a socket on the adjusting nut.
Thanks again for taking the time to do the video.  :)

20 quid for a pair of discs isn't too bad at all!

These discs were also the type that didn't rust initially, they really only changed during the winter but they were fitted last year. By comparison I fitted new discs to my car (KIA Ceed) and the discs were rusty after a couple of weeks!  ::)

You're correct about the centre console but I was expecting a fair bit of faffing around with the adjustment so just removed it for ease of access.

Droneranger

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I had bought TRW discs for the rear, but the box had been opened and the discs had not been repacked properly, resulting in a little damage to one of the discs, so I returned them.
ebay had a promo discount running 20% off, so I saved some money and bought the Juratek discs, which I am pleased with, they are made better then the TRW discs, I was a little concerned that the steel may be more prone to rust, but they are fine.

 

Westy36

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I've used a Juratek caliper before, and it was great quality.

The last two sets of discs and pads I've bought have been Eicher and Pagid. Without question, the Pagid are worth the few extra quid. The rear discs on my Jazz 7 months and 8k miles later are still virtualy rust free! The Eicher on the other hand, were rusty within a month.

I've no experience of other brands, but based onthe above, Pagid win.

gtd2000

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I've used a Juratek caliper before, and it was great quality.

The last two sets of discs and pads I've bought have been Eicher and Pagid. Without question, the Pagid are worth the few extra quid. The rear discs on my Jazz 7 months and 8k miles later are still virtualy rust free! The Eicher on the other hand, were rusty within a month.

I've no experience of other brands, but based onthe above, Pagid win.

I'm not sure what brand the discs were but sourced via eBay and were virtually rust free until after this winter.

I really don't find that discs are anything like the quality they used to be but I suppose they cost a fraction of the price they used to be.

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