Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Other Hondas & General Topics => Honda & Other Honda Models => Topic started by: IanG on March 24, 2021, 06:19:20 PM
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Honda Swindon factory machinery up for sale, including new industrial robots, still in packing crates.
https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/19157827.machinery-equipment-hondas-swindon-plant-sold-online/
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I'd like one of those for the front garden!
(https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/resources/images/12412399.jpg)
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I could buy my old desk & PC :)
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https://www.gordonbrothers.co.uk/assets-for-sale/assets/h/honda-uk
Loads of cool stuff for sale. No idea what to do with it though! 8)
Anyone fancy a "Haden Drysys Int - Drive through vehicle rain simulator for final checking of bodywork for external water leaks"?? Might take some explaining to her indoors!
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https://www.gordonbrothers.co.uk/assets-for-sale/assets/h/honda-uk
Loads of cool stuff for sale. No idea what to do with it though! 8)
Anyone fancy a "Haden Drysys Int - Drive through vehicle rain simulator for final checking of bodywork for external water leaks"?? Might take some explaining to her indoors!
Reckon you could modify that to be a drive through car wash.
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Reckon you could modify that to be a drive through car wash.
Just what I thought, I reckon it would be right up Westy's alley!
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Jokes aside, what a shame the plant is closing. All those jobs, the families depending on that income, local economy, and the supply chain. I could not understand why the engine for the Civic Type R was built in Ohio, shipped here, then put in a Swindon built body, then shipped back to the states
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Knee jerk reaction to a full Brexit that never happened.
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I don't care about the machinery, but I'd love to have that land, including the old runway ;D
I have spent several weeks on the hotel, which was just south of the plant without knowing what was behind that embankment..
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I wonder if, in Honda’s case, the issues were beyond Brexit concerns.
The factory was not producing the volumes it once was and sales in Europe for Honda and many other non European car manufacturers have declined, although I think the Toyota Yaris sells well in Europe, using French and Polish factories. Supermini sector cars are still strong sellers, although with lower profit margins, whereas the Civic model produced in the UK may have been impacted more by the move towards crossover designs.
It would have been good to see UK HRV and return of CRV production, which may then have achieved greater volumes.
Honda have also shut a factory in Turkey and Philippines, so perhaps they are consolidating production to fewer plants, closer to their larger markets.
I guess the EU/Japan trade deal which removes the 10% Japanese made car tariff, I think in 2026, reduces the cost benefit of having EU car plants, so this may have contributed to the plant closure announcement, at a time when decisions needed to be made regarding investments for successor model production.
The coming years will be very disruptive for the car industry and for us as drivers. I’m hoping my Jazz will last me until things have settled down and we have a clearer picture of the situation: I don’t want to buy an electric car until the technology, range and charging infrastructure has improved and hopefully the prices fall.
Maybe there will be a resurgence in road side catering, Little Chef style, with everyone having a meal whilst their cars are on charge in the car park. Looking forward to the free lollipop in exchange for an empty plate!
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Reckon you could modify that to be a drive through car wash.
:D Nah, my cars don't go near any form of automated or commercial wash process. Bucket and mitt are best.
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I guess the EU/Japan trade deal which removes the 10% Japanese made car tariff, I think in 2026, reduces the cost benefit of having EU car plants, so this may have contributed to the plant closure announcement, at a time when decisions needed to be made regarding investments for successor model production.
That's the key to it, consolidation - especially of shrinking ICE vehicle manufacture.
Although import tariffs don't apply between the UK and the EU, the EU/Japan trade deal will gradually diminish the advantage of manufacturing within the EU. There is also the additional complication that trade between the UK & EU, whilst tariff free for vehicles, is no longer frictionless outside of the single market.
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Knee jerk reaction to a full Brexit that never happened.
A manufacturer I used to work for had contracts to supply parts to Swindon ( as well as many other car makers, including some based in Europe ). Even back in about 2010 Swindon was taking only about 25% of the capability of our production cells, which are sized to provide their anticipated demand. Swindon was a former BMC plant - and like many parts of that fragmented group was old fashioned in its layout, with twisting assembly lines. After Honda joint manufacturing tie-up with Rover was destroyed by H M Government in about 1994 in favour of BMW just the Swindon plant remained in Honda hands. Honda were pissed off because many of their drawings and components fell into BMW hands, and BMW were only ever interested in Jaguar / LandRover division anyway and ran the car divisions down - and in early 2000's the X3 and X5 appeared - using LR 4x4 knowledge. Unlike their success in rest of the world Honda has never been a big player in Europe anyway - a combination of misplaced loyalty to brands like VW and badge snobbery. Honda will consolidate its manufacturing in its larger markets like Asia and USA.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/swindon-factory-closure-how-honda-got-europe-so-wrong
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Swindon was a former BMC plant - and like many parts of that fragmented group was old fashioned in its layout, with twisting assembly lines.
The Swindon Honda factory was never a BMC plant, it was built from the ground up by Honda on the old Marston Aerodrome site in 1986.
The only BMC plant in Swindon was Pressed Steel, that transferred to BMW and is still going, making parts for BMW Mini.
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I remember, years ago, watching a program where they stated that in the UK, due to the conveyor belt system, workers only had a short time to fit a part.
If the part didn't quite fit it was a 'best effort' job.
In Japan however, it a part didn't fit, the conveyor was briefly stopped to allow the worker to ensure it was fitted properly.
Don't know if it's true but I remember the program clearly.
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I wonder if, in Honda’s case, the issues were beyond Brexit concerns.
Brexit surely has been another parameter pushing for closure, but it was not alone.
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Honda at Swindon had been shrinking for years, there are two self contained plants with their own production lines, paint shops & canteens etc etc ( plant 1 and plant 2 ).
After the 2008 financial crash changing cars was the last thing on a lot of peoples minds so volumes dropped.
By about 2014/15 plant 2 was closed and mothballed as plant 1 could meet the demand and the plant 1 production lines could be changed over fairly quickly to make any model.
The CRV and Jazz were dropped as new models were introduced leaving Honda at Swindon with just the Civic.
So although Brexit may have been a factor in the final closure it must have been on the cards for a while.
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Honda were a deeply introverted company. NIH - Not Invented Her - described their philosophy.
An unwillingness to adopt the ideas of others, coupled with poor financial returns post the 2008 crash, meant they had less to invest.
Something had to give - and it was Europe...
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Honda were a deeply introverted company. NIH - Not Invented Her - described their philosophy.
An unwillingness to adopt the ideas of others, coupled with poor financial returns post the 2008 crash, meant they had less to invest.
Something had to give - and it was Europe...
Honda may have been introverted, but have pretty much been at the forefront of auto engineering, so why would they need the ideas of others ? The Americans in particular took to Honda in a big way, practical, efficient sporty cars with bulletproof reliability, also very popular throughout Asia.
Honda were the first major car maker to refine electrical power steering system to full electronic control - in 1990 it was fitted to NSX. Suzuki used an NSK EPS system in 1988 but it was very crude and unreliable.
Honda are still the 5th largest car maker in the world, and have always gone it alone, now they have a tie up with GM which could yield many savings in R&D costs in increasingly hi tech cars.
To look at Honda only in Europe is to miss the bigger picture, their market share in Europe has always been around 2% or less. Honda was very slow to adopt diesels because they realised that as far as emissions was concerned diesels would never be anywhere near clean enough. This basically closed off the company car market in Europe to them, where Diesel was supported by governments and benefits in kind tax relief was higher on diesels - and that has been proved by Dieselgate be a major policy blunder ( but diesels were pushed by European makers, and never popular in USA except in tractors and lorries ) , and Honda were correct.
https://www.carlogos.org/reviews/largest-car-companies.html
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/09/08/gmhm-s08.html
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Diesel was supported by governments and benefits in kind tax relief was higher on diesels - and that has been proved by Dieselgate be a major policy blunder ( but diesels were pushed by European makers, and never popular in USA except in tractors and lorries ) , and Honda were correct.
Diesel was pursued as a result of the obsession with CO₂ reduction at the time, I don't see how 'dieselgate' proves it was a policy blunder. Dieselgate was a ploy by the manufacturers to fraudulently misrepresent emissions and fuel economy figures, nothing to do with any failure of governmental policy.
It's not really surprising that diesel never gained traction in the US, where gasoline has averaged 55 cents a litre over the last 20 years.
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Diesel was supported by governments and benefits in kind tax relief was higher on diesels - and that has been proved by Dieselgate be a major policy blunder ( but diesels were pushed by European makers, and never popular in USA except in tractors and lorries ) , and Honda were correct.
Diesel was pursued as a result of the obsession with CO₂ reduction at the time, I don't see how 'dieselgate' proves it was a policy blunder. Dieselgate was a ploy by the manufacturers to fraudulently misrepresent emissions and fuel economy figures, nothing to do with any failure of governmental policy.
It's not really surprising that diesel never gained traction in the US, where gasoline has averaged 55 cents a litre over the last 20 years.
The Japanese openly said in 2005 that 'emissions wise, diesel technology is a dead end', this really upset the Europeans who threatened to ban Japs from European discussions in future. The failure of government policy WAS concentrating on Co2 and ignoring everything else diesels spew out. I have read many articles that say diesel particulates may be responsible for melting icecaps, by blackening the ice and snow and absorbing sunlight. The Americans knew that diesels were dirty as well, and there was no reason that diesel could not be as cheap as gasoline ( except that an average barrel of oil yields twice as much gasoline as diesel ).
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Interesting link posted by Culzean.
https://www.carlogos.org/reviews/largest-car-companies.html
Several manufactures in the top 20 I'd never heard of! Faw Group, BAIC Group, GAC Group and Dongfeng. They produce a lot of vehicles. It must only be a matter of time, MG and SAIC aside, until these companies start appearing in Europe.
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The failure of government policy WAS concentrating on Co2 and ignoring everything else diesels spew out.
I'm pretty sure that's what I just said. It may well have been a major policy blunder, but I still can't see how 'dieselgate' proved that.
there was no reason that diesel could not be as cheap as gasoline ( except that an average barrel of oil yields twice as much gasoline as diesel ).
I wasn't comparing the relative prices of petrol & diesel, but comparing it with the high cost of fuels over here - I don't think we would have been driving diesels in the pursuit of mpg, if petrol had averaged 35p a litre over the last 20 years.
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Talking of fuel prices, I see that stuck container ship has caused a hike in fuel prices.
£1.20 a litre this morning. I'm sure it was under £1.10 when I last topped up.
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Petrol has been £1.20 a litre for a while here, I was a bit shocked when I went a few weeks ago.
I think we still have the increases due to the Suez bung up to come.
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Normally I only do ~60 miles a week in 2 x 30 mile journeys so I don't top up that often. Usually wait till I've under half a tank.
Probably last visited in Jan.
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Normally I only do ~60 miles a week in 2 x 30 mile journeys so I don't top up that often. Usually wait till I've under half a tank.
Probably last visited in Jan.
I think many of us are in the same boat recently, I think I've only filled up 3 times in the last 12 months!
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I fill up more than that a month. Struggling to cope with the petrol just now. Up to £1.20.7 here today.
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Since I retired my mileage has dropped from 12k a year to under 3k. It was under £1k till the daughter moved out.
I suppose I could consider EV but for the annual holidays. No charge points at the guest house we use.
I think Hybrid for the next 8 years then see.
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I fill up more than that a month. Struggling to cope with the petrol just now. Up to £1.20.7 here today.
Just checked locally, prices 121.7p to 125.9p in town. Just over the border in Lincs, cheapest is 124.9 at Tesco/Morrisons.
Jazz is getting the mileage, now the kids are back at school.
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I suppose I could consider EV but for the annual holidays. No charge points at the guest house we use.
I don't think I could currently consider electric if it had to be our only vehicle. If I could afford something with a 300 mile range and reasonably fast charging, maybe.
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Just on the Berkshire news, Honda site sold, end of an era.
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Who bought it?
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Who bought it?
Commercial logistics property developer Panattoni - warehousing.
I doubt that many of the new jobs will be as well paid or highly skilled.
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Who bought it?
Commercial logistics property developer Panattoni - warehousing.
I doubt that many of the new jobs will be as well paid or highly skilled.
I agree, although modern automated warehousing can be very complex and heavy on tech with all the automation now in warehouses, the worthwhile jobs are mainly in IT and engineering / maintenance.