Author Topic: Would the Mk3 benefit from premium petrol?  (Read 6900 times)

Kenneve

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Re: Would the Mk3 benefit from premium petrol?
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2018, 10:15:34 AM »
Whilst I have no recent experience of premium fuels, this ongoing discussion reminds me of an issue I had many years ago, albeit relating to diesel fuel, in a Landrover Freelander. The vehicle was only a few months old, when I noticed 'odd' engine noises. I reported the issue to my dealer and his first question, was to ask what fuel was I using. I reported 'supermarket fuel' to which he responded, try 'branded' fuel, which I cynically thought, what the heck no difference!

However i did change over to 'branded fuel', and the 'odd' noises disappeared, not only that but the MPG improved as well, which covered the extra costs. So rightly or wrongly I've never used 'supermarket' fuel since.

However just to counteract that story, I've also heard that wherever you buy your fuel from, ie 'supermarket' or 'branded', the delivery tanker drivers, all fill up from the same tanks, at the fuel distribution centre, so is it all in the mind? :(
 

Jocko

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Re: Would the Mk3 benefit from premium petrol?
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2018, 10:39:19 AM »
The additives are actually added at the pumps, so the basic 95 RON is delivered by the tanker to whatever station needs it.

guest1372

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Re: Would the Mk3 benefit from premium petrol?
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2018, 11:14:08 AM »
The additives part is all a bit mysterious, I compare it to Evian vs Volvic water, they're all fundamentally the same but one maybe tastes better? Or is it just marketing?

I can say that there is little linking the brand names to the supply chains these days, Shell petrol won't be refined or drilled by Shell. The majority of forecourts are licensees, the operators may have many different brands in their group, but that doesn't mean everywhere sells the same thing, there are regional / seasonal differences that have greater variation than that between brands which have to comply with a fairly detailed standard.

Distribution is in the hands of just a couple of wholesalers now, the 'customer blend' is done at one stage before tanker fill to enable QC and standards to be monitored. UK petrol is now imported, our few remaining refineries mostly produce diesel based products and liquified petroleum gasses.

(My father spent most of his career with ExxonMobil special products division as a Chartered automotive engineer, he still gets quite a few trade magazines which I tend to browse)
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TG

culzean

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Re: Would the Mk3 benefit from premium petrol?
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2018, 12:10:44 PM »
I can't help feeling that if the benefit of 97/99 octane fuel was really as great as some people claim, then Honda would say something like "Recommended octane 97/99. Minimum octane 95", rather than let the vast majority of their customers drive around with a sub-optimal performance.

Different areas / countries of the world have different grades of fuel available and car makers fettle their engines to run on what is expected to be available.  This grade can probably affect performance and emissions so they have to be careful what they recommend - if they test their car on 97/99 and it is not likely to be available they will not recommend it , they will just state the minimum octane you should use that will not cause problems.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

guest4871

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Re: Would the Mk3 benefit from premium petrol?
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2018, 01:08:10 PM »
The additives part is all a bit mysterious, I compare it to Evian vs Volvic water, they're all fundamentally the same but one maybe tastes better? Or is it just marketing?

I can say that there is little linking the brand names to the supply chains these days, Shell petrol won't be refined or drilled by Shell. The majority of forecourts are licensees, the operators may have many different brands in their group, but that doesn't mean everywhere sells the same thing, there are regional / seasonal differences that have greater variation than that between brands which have to comply with a fairly detailed standard.

Distribution is in the hands of just a couple of wholesalers now, the 'customer blend' is done at one stage before tanker fill to enable QC and standards to be monitored. UK petrol is now imported, our few remaining refineries mostly produce diesel based products and liquified petroleum gasses.

(My father spent most of his career with ExxonMobil special products division as a Chartered automotive engineer, he still gets quite a few trade magazines which I tend to browse)
--
TG

A pretty accurate summary above of an extremely complicated subject.

Also remember that around the world the standard octane rating can be as low as 90.

Regular gasoline in Japan is 90RON, hence the indicator from Honda to use 95 RON or above. 

What we get in UK is only either Premium at 95 and Super at 97/99 etc. Regular got dropped in the UK years ago.

Just to add to the fun, each brand's RON also varies by country!

And the brand formulation changes from summer to winter too.

For a broader insight see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating which covers the subject very completely.

The RON figure these days indicates the base product before additives. Try finding out what the additives are!

The higher octane ratings normaly have lower bio fuel (ethanol?) content.


peteo48

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Re: Would the Mk3 benefit from premium petrol?
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2018, 01:56:16 PM »
The additives thing is interesting in terms of trying to find out what these are, how much is added and so on. You can pick up a pie in Tesco and there will be a detailed analysis of what's in it on the pack. All you get from the fuel companies is "contains extra additives" - Esso say their regular 95 comes with "even more additives than before" and the 97 super fuel contains "even more additives than the 95." Interestingly Esso now source their fuels from Greenergy who also supply Tesco - presumably the fuel's the same but a different cocktail of "stuff" is added at the terminal.

It's clever marketing, especially to mildly OCD types like me but the Australian Motor pundit - John Cadogan (AutoExpert.com) calls it "weapons grade BS" - he did an item on BP Ultimate and made the point that by saying the top grade petrol was necessary to clean your engine they were effectively saying that their own regular fuel was rubbish!

Jocko

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Re: Would the Mk3 benefit from premium petrol?
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2018, 02:50:38 PM »
I have used supermarket petrol "for ever", and never had the least bit of bother. I bought one car, with 100,000 miles on the clock, and ran it for another 100,000 miles, all on supermarket petrol. Never had the least bit of bother.
But it's up to you. You pay your money and take your choice.

culzean

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Re: Would the Mk3 benefit from premium petrol?
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2018, 03:06:51 PM »
I have used supermarket petrol "for ever", and never had the least bit of bother. I bought one car, with 100,000 miles on the clock, and ran it for another 100,000 miles, all on supermarket petrol. Never had the least bit of bother.
But it's up to you. You pay your money and take your choice.

https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car-advice/dirt-busting-fuel-fact-or-fiction/

(and its not from the Daily Mail)

As for injector cleaner..




« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 04:07:07 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

jazzway

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Would the Mk3 benefit from premium petrol?
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2018, 04:13:33 PM »
For me it is simple. I don’t like ethanol in petrol! The Shell V-Power (98) i fill the tank with contains no ethanol. I get a little more noticeable MPG, some more power, but most important: NO ethanol.

Living near the Belgium and German borders, i am cheaper with the V-Power tanked in Belgium than the regular 95 in the Netherlands.

Btw, i also think (and hope) that the better additives in Shell maybe prevent future problems with the fuel filter.

Skyrider

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Re: Would the Mk3 benefit from premium petrol?
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2018, 04:56:07 PM »
Don't confuse the cleaning properties of detergent additives with octane improving additives. All raw petrol comes from the same tank at the refinery, no-one will tell you what additives they use other than marketing hype. Unless your Jazz has a high performance turbocharged engine it does not need anything other than 95 octane fuel, even if you use it for track days!

Jocko

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Re: Would the Mk3 benefit from premium petrol?
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2018, 05:09:26 PM »
For me it is simple. I don’t like ethanol in petrol! The Shell V-Power (98) i fill the tank with contains no ethanol. I get a little more noticeable MPG, some more power, but most important: NO ethanol.
All fuel sold in the UK must contain a minimum of 5% bio fuel (usually Ethanol), so we have no option.

Skyrider

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Re: Would the Mk3 benefit from premium petrol?
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2018, 05:17:36 PM »
For me it is simple. I don’t like ethanol in petrol! The Shell V-Power (98) i fill the tank with contains no ethanol. I get a little more noticeable MPG, some more power, but most important: NO ethanol.
All fuel sold in the UK must contain a minimum of 5% bio fuel (usually Ethanol), so we have no option.

E10 (10% ethanol) is in use in many countries, no doubt it will arrive here in due course.

culzean

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Re: Would the Mk3 benefit from premium petrol?
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2018, 05:25:52 PM »
For me it is simple. I don’t like ethanol in petrol! The Shell V-Power (98) i fill the tank with contains no ethanol. I get a little more noticeable MPG, some more power, but most important: NO ethanol.
All fuel sold in the UK must contain a minimum of 5% bio fuel (usually Ethanol), so we have no option.

E10 (10% ethanol) is in use in many countries, no doubt it will arrive here in due course.

yeah,  lets burn down even more rainforest to plant sugar cane to use for vehicle fuel - another great great idea by clueless   legislators / politicians -   with thousands of square miles of rainforest on fire it makes a mockery of worrying about climate change.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

peteo48

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Re: Would the Mk3 benefit from premium petrol?
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2018, 05:47:44 PM »
For me it is simple. I don’t like ethanol in petrol! The Shell V-Power (98) i fill the tank with contains no ethanol. I get a little more noticeable MPG, some more power, but most important: NO ethanol.
All fuel sold in the UK must contain a minimum of 5% bio fuel (usually Ethanol), so we have no option.

E10 (10% ethanol) is in use in many countries, no doubt it will arrive here in due course.

yeah,  lets burn down even more rainforest to plant sugar cane to use for vehicle fuel - another great great idea by clueless   legislators / politicians -   with thousands of square miles of rainforest on fire it makes a mockery of worrying about climate change.

Whilst I don't always see eye to eye with you on climate change I think you make a very valid point here. Never seen the logic of using food in cars!

jazzway

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Would the Mk3 benefit from premium petrol?
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2018, 07:27:55 PM »
Rainforest should stay rainforest, and land already in use should be used for food and not ‘bio fuel’! Our planet is misused in many ways, bio ethanol is (imo) one of them.

All fuel sold in the UK must contain a minimum of 5% bio fuel (usually Ethanol), so we have no option.
In the Netherlands too. But exceptions are special fuels like V-Power, BP Ultimate, Firezone Competition 102 and maybe others.

E10 (10% ethanol) is in use in many countries, no doubt it will arrive here in due course.
In Belgium the minimum is 10%, again with exceptions for special fuels.

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