Author Topic: Ringing squeal noise from rear - ideas?  (Read 6940 times)

guest5079

  • Guest
Re: Ringing squeal noise from rear - ideas?
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2018, 08:50:03 AM »
It is possible for a stone or other hard foreign object to be so lodged tween disc and cover to have to be extracted by using force. Imagine a granite chip wedge shaped getting down between the disc and cover with the pointed end facing into the gap. Every revolution is forcing it further in. If you can jack the car up and turn the probable rear wheel slowly a) you might hear the noise and b) might be able to see a scratch or score.

Rory

  • Topic Starter
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 657
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2009 1.4 EX Manual - gone to a family member. Still look after it, and a 2014 EX driven by daughter.
Re: Ringing squeal noise from rear - ideas?
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2018, 10:01:38 AM »
I'm hoping the weather will warm up a bit and I'll take a look.  I'm getting a bit past rolling around under cars though!

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9356
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: Died from rust.
Re: Ringing squeal noise from rear - ideas?
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2018, 10:28:32 AM »
Rusting on discs normally refers to a ring of rust round the outer edge of the area swept by the pads. As shown in this photo:


What my son-in-law does, when he has worked on brakes for me, is use a heavy blunt screwdriver like a lathe tool. He spins the disc and uses the screwdriver to scrape the rust off. It doesn't have to be clean. Just reduced sufficiently so as not to rub against anything.

Rory

  • Topic Starter
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 657
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2009 1.4 EX Manual - gone to a family member. Still look after it, and a 2014 EX driven by daughter.
Re: Ringing squeal noise from rear - ideas?
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2018, 03:46:43 PM »
Well, not sure where the disconnect is but the service manager just emailed me to say one of the inside rear pads is 95% worn and the noise I'm hearing is the acoustic wear indicator.

This is now entirely consistent with what I expected, so I feel some relief at the explanation.   I've asked him quite why this wasn't detected first time (both the wear and the noise) and what, bearing in mind the rear pads were reported at 10% worn last service, does he think the reason for this is.

madasafish

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1949
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 1.4 ES CVT -2012
Re: Ringing squeal noise from rear - ideas?
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2018, 06:21:04 AM »
All you need is for one pad to be stuck due to corrosion and it will wear - often unevenly. It may then tip on breaking so one end wear quicker.. and if it's the inner pad and worn at the edge nearest to the bearings, an external inspection will not show it.

But some garages make a nice living form early pad replacements  >:(

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Ringing squeal noise from rear - ideas?
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2018, 10:36:22 AM »
I would guess the caliper is seized / sticking on the slide pins, this means caliper will no longer equalise (there is only a piston on inner side of caliper and when it forces the inner pad against disc the whole caliper assembly is supposed to slide across on 2  'slide pins' so that the outer pad (without piston) pushes on the disc with equal force to the inner pad) - the pins have rubber concertina bellows to keep dirt and water out,  it is not unknown for ham fisted mechanics to split or displace these bellows when working on brakes and once the water gets in the pins rust and no longer slide freely.  Plenty of information about slide pin lubrication on this forum.  Normally the pins clean up pretty well with a bit of fine emery paper and a  bit of Ceratec or TRW PFG110 brake grease fixes it.  Do not use ordinary petroleum based grease on brake parts as it causes rubber gaiters and seals to swell and disintegrate.......

https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=9314.msg50359#msg50359

new slide pin kits with lubricant are available 

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Brakes-International/Brake-Caliper-Slider-Pins-/_i.html?_nkw=honda+jazz+2012&submit=Search&_fsub=522765519&_sid=1067998489
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 11:47:10 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Rory

  • Topic Starter
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 657
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2009 1.4 EX Manual - gone to a family member. Still look after it, and a 2014 EX driven by daughter.
Re: Ringing squeal noise from rear - ideas?
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2018, 01:35:03 PM »
I guess the issue now is whether the caliper can be freed off or if it needs to be replaced.

The car has 5yr warranty coverage so I'm a bit stuck with letting the dealer do the rear discs and pads and seeing what happens. 

I have suggested to the service manager that their first look at the car, not hearing the noise, and declaring it to be OK, is not the level of expertise I would expect, and that I also wouldn't have expected to be replacing rear pads and discs at this point, but at the moment he's having none of it. 

He's blaming my daughter as she baulked at paying the £140 they asked for to do further diagnostic work after they said they thought the car was fine and couldn't hear the noise.  So she went away happy - she only took the car back as I insisted.

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Ringing squeal noise from rear - ideas?
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2018, 03:13:14 PM »
I guess the issue now is whether the caliper can be freed off or if it needs to be replaced.

The car has 5yr warranty coverage so I'm a bit stuck with letting the dealer do the rear discs and pads and seeing what happens. 

I have suggested to the service manager that their first look at the car, not hearing the noise, and declaring it to be OK, is not the level of expertise I would expect, and that I also wouldn't have expected to be replacing rear pads and discs at this point, but at the moment he's having none of it. 

He's blaming my daughter as she baulked at paying the £140 they asked for to do further diagnostic work after they said they thought the car was fine and couldn't hear the noise.  So she went away happy - she only took the car back as I insisted.

They sound like pretty slack people if you ask me, and more excuses than the Guinness world book of excuses   :o  Cleaning or replacing the slide pins is not a hard job and only needs basic tools.  I have had a couple of sticky calipers over the years and have been able to clean up the slide pins and a bit of decent brake grease is all it needed.  Whenever I change pads now I re-lube the pins as they are the number one care point on the calipers,  I have never had to replace piston seals or a caliper.  If you keep the brake fluid in good condition it will prevent any corrosion in the system or the cylinders and save heaps of trouble.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9356
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: Died from rust.
Re: Ringing squeal noise from rear - ideas?
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2018, 03:30:05 PM »
Rory, what is the name and location of the dealership? Some of us may wish to avoid them, in the future!

Rory

  • Topic Starter
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 657
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2009 1.4 EX Manual - gone to a family member. Still look after it, and a 2014 EX driven by daughter.
Re: Ringing squeal noise from rear - ideas?
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2018, 03:44:36 PM »
Whenever I change pads now I re-lube the pins as they are the number one care point on the calipers, 

When I used to service our cars I'd strip and clean the brakes but of course dealers don't do that sort of thing these days.  To be fair, even the indie I use for my Merc said it doesn't really make sense - once they get in there they might as well change the pads, oh, and the discs of course!  They want the parts profit, not just the labour.

Rory

  • Topic Starter
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 657
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2009 1.4 EX Manual - gone to a family member. Still look after it, and a 2014 EX driven by daughter.
Re: Ringing squeal noise from rear - ideas?
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2018, 03:49:15 PM »
Rory, what is the name and location of the dealership? Some of us may wish to avoid them, in the future!

It's Cheshire Oaks Honda, part of the Holdcroft group.

They replaced the excellent independent TwoMills a few years ago as part of Honda gearing up for increased sales in the UK.  We all know how that went!   There also used to be Saunders in Chester and around here there were loads of Hondas.  Now they're a rare sight.  It should have been a no-brainer for my wife to move from Jazz to HR-V or CRV but she bought a Tiguan instead.

To be honest, I have no idea how the dealer survives - I read it cost £6m to build and the place is always deserted.

olduser1

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1746
  • Country: 00
  • My Honda: Jazz EX 2015 CVT Elite Pack
Re: Ringing squeal noise from rear - ideas?
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2018, 05:16:16 PM »
Its well known around Merseyside, their previous place Two Mills thrived on Mugen Honda's  to the point where they went bust. The key these days is finding a local garage that recognizes the value of customers with mechanics rather than technicians who cannot talk to people.
Large dealerships appear to thrive by providing finance to reach weekly monthly targets supplemented by trying it on with Lifeshine & GAP insurance bonuses...

Rory

  • Topic Starter
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 657
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2009 1.4 EX Manual - gone to a family member. Still look after it, and a 2014 EX driven by daughter.
Re: Ringing squeal noise from rear - ideas?
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2018, 05:44:49 PM »
Its well known around Merseyside, their previous place Two Mills thrived on Mugen Honda's  to the point where they went bust.

The business became untenable when Honda took the franchise away.  The shut down was quite sudden as they looked at carrying on but decided (or maybe the banks decided for them?) to liquidate instead.

Some of the former Saunders Chester people set up a repair only place on the other side of Chester - Saunders for Service.  They have a good reputation but I think the Honda element of their work is quite small now.  I've had some contact with them but not yet used them. Might put our older Honda there for its next service.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 05:49:13 PM by Rory »

Rory

  • Topic Starter
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 657
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2009 1.4 EX Manual - gone to a family member. Still look after it, and a 2014 EX driven by daughter.
Re: Ringing squeal noise from rear - ideas?
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2018, 02:38:50 PM »
To close this out, as they say: Had a bit of back and forth with the dealer service manager but it's clear my dissatisfaction with their inability to find the problem first time or that the vehicle health check is so superficial that it misses something like this, is getting through to him.  Not to mention that the problem arose in the first place, but perhaps it is just one of things - no-one seems to even spray brake cleaner on brakes anymore, never mind actually service them.

Anyway it was playing on my mind so got the car in there this morning and they changed the rear pads and discs and they very pointedly mentioned a build-up of dirt in the caliper was causing uneven pad wear.

Unfortunately neither the service manager or the dealer principal were in today but the service advisor took it upon himself to try and re-run the whole argument.  I didn't really want to go there so just paid up.

He advised we should jet-wash the calipers, which I have to say is counter to what I'd have thought was a good idea.

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Ringing squeal noise from rear - ideas?
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2018, 02:52:11 PM »
To close this out, as they say: Had a bit of back and forth with the dealer service manager but it's clear my dissatisfaction with their inability to find the problem first time or that the vehicle health check is so superficial that it misses something like this, is getting through to him.  Not to mention that the problem arose in the first place, but perhaps it is just one of things - no-one seems to even spray brake cleaner on brakes anymore, never mind actually service them.

Anyway it was playing on my mind so got the car in there this morning and they changed the rear pads and discs and they very pointedly mentioned a build-up of dirt in the caliper was causing uneven pad wear.

Unfortunately neither the service manager or the dealer principal were in today but the service advisor took it upon himself to try and re-run the whole argument.  I didn't really want to go there so just paid up.

He advised we should jet-wash the calipers, which I have to say is counter to what I'd have thought was a good idea.

Problem with rear disc brakes and alloy wheels is that the rear brakes pick up so much crap it is unbelievable.  Many people think that drum brakes on the rear are 'old tech' and are put off by them.  Drum brakes are more than adequate and make a better handbrake,  shoes will last 100,000 miles minimum and drums last forever.  I know rear drums are harder to work on but the truth is they need very little attention.    I am amazed how much cleaner my rear brakes are with winter tyres on (steel wheels, and wheel trims ) due to much better protection than alloys give.

Strange that the service guy advised jet washing brakes,  that is certain to push water past seals and bellows and cause even more rusting and trouble - It seems that service people are not what they used to be (a lot of them used to actually be interested in cars rather than just a day job - sounds like your guy was selling double glazing earlier in his career)).  Sounds like the guy was actually trying to shift the blame on to you for not jet-washing and otherwise 'maintaining' the brakes.    As I said before the whole thing was a very poor show,  all they want to  do is sell new cars and change the oil (although I would not even trust that guy to change the oil) and charge exhorbitant prices.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 03:49:58 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Tags:
 

Back to top