Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - 2020 => Topic started by: Jackspratt on October 21, 2018, 01:31:28 PM
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Hi Everyone,
Well I've had my Jazz 1.5 sport CVT for just over 2 months now and apart from the awful infotainment system I'm very pleased with it.
For the first time yesterday I needed to go out in it very early in the morning so still dark. To my joy I discovered that it has Main Beam Assist. My last vehicle ( a VW Golf) had it and I thought I would miss it as I was unaware that the Jazz I have has that feature. It was a bonus to get LED headlights so the Main Beam Assist has put an even bigger smile on my face! ; :D
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Yes - I agree and, so far, I have found it works well.
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Yes - I agree and, so far, I have found it works well.
Yes Peteo, it's very accurate too, slightly more so than the VW :D
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What does 'main beam assist' do for you?
Vic.
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What does 'main beam assist' do for you?
Vic.
It annoys you by turning on high beam when you don’t want it >:(
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What does 'main beam assist' do for you?
Vic.
It saves a lot of endless clicking on the lighting stalk. I've found it to be excellent, and quicker-acting than I would be.
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I agree, it works really well. The only downside is that it is not possible for it to be pre-emptive like us humans by dipping the lights before an oncoming vehicle comes into view. But it does dip pretty quickly once it sees the headlights.
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What does 'main beam assist' do for you?
Vic.
It annoys you by turning on high beam when you don’t want it >:(
I really do think that the more 'automation' that is fitted to vehicles the less attention drivers pay to driving, it is human nature unfortunately. If you don't know when to turn wipers and lights on and off, slow down and speed up in response to speed limit signs etc. there is a question if you should really be driving. This is illustrated by some drivers thinking they can sit in the passenger seat and the car will automatically somehow drive itself, with tragic consequences. Some people don't seem to realise that auto braking only works below around 20mph - it instills false confidence that the car is going to sort out things if you mess up by not paying attention.
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I am contradicting myself here because although I think the Main Beam Assist system works very well, I think the point Culzean makes about getting lazy and inattentive is well made.
The automatic headlight thing is a classic case. They are unpredicatable so you do get people driving in poor light with no lights because the system isn't clever enough to turn them on - they are relying on the car to turn them on.
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I think the auto stuff works well, except in exceptional circumstances. Heaven forbid a driver might have to engage his brain occaisionally. One exceptional circumstance is fog, a bright ambient light level but poor visibility so no auto lights. You can't please all the people all of the time, as we have seen here many times with personal preferences being seen as poor design by Honda.
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We were talking about "Main Beam Assist" or "High Beam Support System" as called in the handbook, but now we've drifted into Auto Headlights and I agree that this should not be relied on, specifically as mentioned, in fog.
If you do nothing then you have Daytime Running Lights at the front and nothing at the rear. Pretty dangerous driving like that.
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I am contradicting myself here because although I think the Main Beam Assist system works very well, I think the point Culzean makes about getting lazy and inattentive is well made.
The automatic headlight thing is a classic case. They are unpredicatable so you do get people driving in poor light with no lights because the system isn't clever enough to turn them on - they are relying on the car to turn them on.
My experience seems to be opposite, where the lights turn on when not required, eg, when stopped at traffic lights, in bright sunshine, but under overhanging trees??
Like others have said, I would much prefer not to have an auto system at all, or least the ability to override it when necessary.
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It's not the cars fault if you stop under a bridge or overhanging trees and does it really matter, the lights go off when you move.
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It's not the cars fault if you stop under a bridge or overhanging trees and does it really matter, the lights go off when you move.
The vehicle's light sensor design could be much better. It seems to look upwards but also needs to look forwards and realise that there's bright sunshine all around. It should be possible to get a brightness input from the vehicle's camera and this method could also be better for identifying gloomy conditions.
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It's not the cars fault if you stop under a bridge or overhanging trees and does it really matter, the lights go off when you move.
In the scenario mentioned, the driver in front of me wonders what the hell is going on, when my lights come!!
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Most drivers understand how auto lights work, I have never had a driver in front puzzled enough to get out and ask me why my lights are on.
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Our No.1 car has "high beam assist", auto headlights, and also adaptive lighting, which alters the beam pattern according to the road speed and weather conditions. That bit, and the auto headlights, works quite well, but I understand now why so many drivers in new cars blind you with their headlights rounding bends etc..
It's a pain on duel carriageways especially, where lorry drivers don't like being blinded - the armco barriers often mask the headlights of lorries coming the other way and you have to dip manually. Only sometimes, the system doesn't like that, and insists on full beam again. The lorry drivers must think you're bonkers.
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I Had a Qashqai with automatic lights. Easily fooled into thinking that the reflection from a road sign was an oncoming vehicle, applied the main beam, even though half a second later it went off because of the above or a vehicle was approaching.
In some respects automatic lights are a good idea, so at least at night those drivers who try to save electricity by not having their lights on, are overruled by the car's sensors.
I'd guess that the lights sensors are fooled by snow, just like the lane assist etc tools.
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Don't worry about auto lights or high beams in snow, LED headlights don't melt snow so you won't notice. :D
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I Had a Qashqai with automatic lights. Easily fooled into thinking that the reflection from a road sign was an oncoming vehicle, applied the main beam, even though half a second later it went off because of the above or a vehicle was approaching.
In some respects automatic lights are a good idea, so at least at night those drivers who try to save electricity by not having their lights on, are overruled by the car's sensors.
I'd guess that the lights sensors are fooled by snow, just like the lane assist etc tools.
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I've not noticed a problem on the Jazz with light reflected from road signs. I don't know why not - could it be something to do with reflected light being polarised?
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Back on topic, I've not noticed a problem on the Jazz with light reflected from road signs. I don't know why not - could it be something to do with reflected light being polarised?
I also noticed that the Jazz can tell the difference between reflective red marker posts and tail lights.
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Back on topic, I've not noticed a problem on the Jazz with light reflected from road signs. I don't know why not - could it be something to do with reflected light being polarised?
I also noticed that the Jazz can tell the difference between reflective red marker posts and tail lights.
Yeah the main beam logic is pretty good. I'm not convinced that it sometimes gets it wrong. Just because a vehicle is in front of you doesn't mean that it's being dazzled. The main beams have a particular pattern and if correctly programmed the car could leave the lights on longer than a human would because the car knows it's not a problem.
I'd put the main beam handling forward as an example of good automatic technology.
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Back on topic, I've not noticed a problem on the Jazz with light reflected from road signs. I don't know why not - could it be something to do with reflected light being polarised?
I also noticed that the Jazz can tell the difference between reflective red marker posts and tail lights.
Yeah the main beam logic is pretty good. I'm not convinced that it sometimes gets it wrong. Just because a vehicle is in front of you doesn't mean that it's being dazzled. The main beams have a particular pattern and if correctly programmed the car could leave the lights on longer than a human would because the car knows it's not a problem.
I'd put the main beam handling forward as an example of good automatic technology.
I turn my main beam off the second I see lights approaching, probably long before the auto feature would. Having spent a lot of time commuting on unlit B roads my pet hate is dazzling headlights and I give others all the courtesy I can. Your sensors don't know if your lights are dazzling oncoming driver, and leaving mains on longer does not sound good to me. This sounds like another ' auto ' feature for drivers who are not paying attention.
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I turn my main beam off the second I see lights approaching, probably long before the auto feature would. Having spent a lot of time commuting on unlit B roads my pet hate is dazzling headlights and I give others all the courtesy I can. Your sensors don't know if your lights are dazzling oncoming driver, and leaving mains on longer does not sound good to me. This sounds like another ' auto ' feature for drivers who are not paying attention.
Having now had a car with this feature, I have to agree 100%.
I thought it was quite clever at the beginning, but after a while it became apparent that there are many instances where the forward facing camera cannot see oncoming headlights clearly, but the oncoming driver would have a direct line of sight to your full beam. I mentioned the issue with lorries and dual carriageways earlier, but there are other examples, even gentle bends and a low hedge or bank can leave you blinding an oncoming driver for a considerable time. Not only that, the HID lights fitted are extremely bright on full beam, it's like broad daylight, and carry for some considerable distance.
Even when a car rounds a bend in clear view, there is a short period when the driver is dazzled before both headlights are pointing towards you and the system recognises it as an oncoming car, and motorbikes are not always seen. I would have dipped much earlier in most cases than the car does.
It can also be fooled by tail lights too. With cars, it's generally very good at spotting them at distance, but it also insists on dipped lights whenever I'm driving towards directly at of the local power stations, which have red navigation lights up the chimneys. You see multiple pairs of red lights in the air on the 600ft stacks, but the car thinks it's another vehicle, even a mile or two away.
I mostly switch it off now, but the car turns it back on if you stop and restart the car. Maybe some systems are better than others, but if I could turn mine off permanently, I would. The other bits such as side lighting, auto lights and adaptive beam work well, but I don't like this main beam assist.
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These have not been my experiences with the main beam assist on my Mk 3 Jazz.
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These have not been my experiences with the main beam assist on my Mk 3 Jazz.
As I say, some systems might be better than others, and I have no experience of the Honda system. I'm all for driver aids, but I'm just not keen on the system fitted to my Vauxhall.
That said, culzean's point is still valid - there are instances where a considerate driver would dip before seeing the oncoming car's headlights, rounding bends, brow of a hill, etc., and these systems don't, as a rule, dip lights until it recognises the headlights of the oncoming vehicle.
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That said, culzean's point is still valid - there are instances where a considerate driver would dip before seeing the oncoming car's headlights, rounding bends, brow of a hill, etc., and these systems don't, as a rule, dip lights until it recognises the headlights of the oncoming vehicle.
Classic case is a lorry coming over the brow of a hill, I can see its side lights above the cab, the cars sensors ignore them till it sees the headlights.
At least with auto lights, when it's dark the intellectually challenged / forgetful still have the correct lights on.
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That said, culzean's point is still valid - there are instances where a considerate driver would dip before seeing the oncoming car's headlights, rounding bends, brow of a hill, etc., and these systems don't, as a rule, dip lights until it recognises the headlights of the oncoming vehicle.
Classic case is a lorry coming over the brow of a hill, I can see its side lights above the cab, the cars sensors ignore them till it sees the headlights.
Other examples where a human would/should dip but the high beam assist doesn’t are:
- cyclists
- pedestrians
- vehicles side-on to you (eg waiting to emerge from a side junction)
So even if you are using the auto-dip, you still have to be prepared to override it at short notice.
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So even if you are using the auto-dip, you still have to be prepared to override it at short notice.
Even that can be a bit fraught, I find myself hovering over the stalk for a moment waiting for it to auto dip, I've lost count the number of times I've said " dip you *******"... then choosing the exact same moment to override the system when it does it itself, so you end up flashing the oncoming driver again. They must think you're mad.
Over the last few years, I've commented on the increase in drivers dipping late. As soon as i bought a car equipped with 'main beam assist', it all became clear.
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Your sensors don't know if your lights are dazzling oncoming driver
They can predict it. The shape of the main beam is known so the area within which someone would be dazzled by it can be calculated. If the vehicle is far enough in front, off to the side because of a bend or approaching from above the main beam will not be dazzling them. A computer can perform the calculations. It's only the limitations of the human brain that make it necessary for us to dip the lights just because another vehicle is in front of us.
The calculations are so good that some manufacturers actually shape the beam to put a shadow around other vehicles. Eg; Audi's Headlight Matrix System (https://www.audi-mediacenter.com/en/audimediatv/video/audi-matrix-led-headlights-2746).
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These have not been my experiences with the main beam assist on my Mk 3 Jazz.
Same here. I think I've had a couple of cases where it failed to dip the lights and it often dips them approaching a roundabout outside my estate (must be the new LED street lamps) but otherwise it does a good job. I think the people who don't trust it just don't understand the difference between 'being illuminated' and 'being dazzled'. Just because vehicles in front can see your headlights doesn't mean they are being dazzled by them.
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I think the people who don't trust it just don't understand the difference between 'being illuminated' and 'being dazzled'. Just because vehicles in front can see your headlights doesn't mean they are being dazzled by them.
I understand only too well that main beam = being dazzled, even if the main beam is behind you - do you drive at night very often ??
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I think I can safely say that lorry drivers do not like my HID headlights on full beam when it fails to dip, and they make sure that I understand that.
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I think I can safely say that lorry drivers do not like my HID headlights on full beam when it fails to dip, and they make sure that I understand that.
Obviously lorry drivers do not like being illuminated, and if you are illuminating them enough to make them annoyed when they are 8 foot+ above the road imagine how annoyed a normal car driver would be at about 3 to 4 foot above the road :o
Being blinded by oncoming lights on an unlit rural road means you lose your night vision for a fair distance, not so bad on an urban road with streetlights.
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Off topic replies removed.
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I think the people who don't trust it just don't understand the difference between 'being illuminated' and 'being dazzled'. Just because vehicles in front can see your headlights doesn't mean they are being dazzled by them.
I understand only too well that main beam = being dazzled, even if the main beam is behind you - do you drive at night very often ??
Yes, every day at the moment. And I'll reiterate - just because a vehicle is in front of you doesn't mean they are being dazzled. It depends how far in front of you they are, what height relative to your vehicle and what horizontal offset. Main beam only dazzles those directly within its coverage area. If a vehicle is more than 150 metres ahead the driver will not be being dazzled.
There's more information here (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259068901_Determining_when_an_object_enters_the_headlight_beam_pattern_of_a_vehicle).
As that document suggests and as various searches on Google show high beams typically only illuminate out to 350 ft or so (~110 metres).
Also here (https://driving-tests.org/beginner-drivers/high-beam-headlights-use/).
"While high beams help keep you safe, they can also endanger other drivers if you use them incorrectly. All states have laws requiring you to dim your high-beam headlights whenever there is a risk of blinding other drivers. The exact distance varies from state to state, but typically, high beam headlights must not be used within 500 feet of an approaching vehicle or within 200 or 300 feet of another vehicle you’re following."
The 500 ft of an approaching vehicle is probably to allow time for the driver to react and dip the lights rather than dazzling the oncoming driver earlier.