Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - 2020 => Topic started by: monkeydave on October 06, 2019, 01:13:23 AM
-
anyone else experenced having louder valve type noise after first oil change service? starts ok and you only notice if your sat in traffic after 1/2 mile or so and then it sounds perfect again, oil is just over max so not low on oil
i only got this car in march with 16 miles on it (6 month old pre registered car) and had it serviced last month when it was 1 year old with 4700 miles so i have never owned this car through the colder months
last week monday to thurday it was 5c and made the noise and on thu it was raining so 15c and was quieter but was still there if you listen. it was also there today at 15c so might just be a fluke and not temperature related
the only other thing i think it could be is thinner oil (0/20) instead of the factory oil which might be different for bedding the engine in
any help appreciated
-
0W20 oil, you mean tap water :)
Engine makers do tend to use a thicker semi-synthetic or mineral oil for bedding in an engine because to put fully synth in straight away would mean the surfaces would probably never bed, I wouldn't worry over a slight tappety noise from engine before it has fully warmed up ( but if you are a 'whine' lover - could always get an electric car :) ).
-
I normally run 5w-30, but before my recent service and oil change I had been putting 10w-40 in, and the engine was almost silent. It is not noisy at the best of times, but the thicker oil made it even quieter.
-
cheers guys
it was done at honda and that all they use now as its full range temp oil and its written on the oil cap too, just never noticed the noise on other hondas ive had after all it starts up quiet and then after a min or so goes through a tappety stage and then back to normal again
-
Honda factory fill for EUDM and JDM petrol engines is 0w20 since 2001, it's the best oil for engine running during warmup, and it's the best oil in engines engineered for this oil. I would never use a 0w20 in a Fiat 1.2 Fire engine, as I would never use a 10w40 in a L13B2 Honda engine.
I still wonder why common customers think to be clever than engineers and they use higher grade viscosity oils when they'd better to use the prescribed type... Ok, 0w20 was difficult to find in Europe before 2010, only official dealers could have it.. but now can be easily bought and used in our engines.
-
I switched from 0W-20 to 5w-30 in Mar 19. It started life with 5w-30. Engine certainly quieter as to be expected but they do seem to be a 'tappety' sounding engine at tick over, regardless. As a side note, I expected a slight drop in MPG as a result of adding treacle. I recall the indicated MPG on the fibometer pre change was @ 44.5/45. It has now dipped to 43.9 with the slightly cooler weather but has nevertheless been averaging down all summer. Interesting to see where it bottoms out.
-
the thing is i dont remember hearing the tappety noise before the oil was change at the service but the weather was warmer then too so who knows
-
I've got this slight tappety sound after start up in colder weather. It seems common with the 1.3 engine on the Mk3. Didn't have it on either of my Mk2s.
-
I've got this slight tappety sound after start up in colder weather. It seems common with the 1.3 engine on the Mk3. Didn't have it on either of my Mk2s.
thanks for that, im glad im not alone and i dont remember it either on my mk2
how long does your tappety sound last for and is it straight after startup or a little after
thanks
-
Honda factory fill for EUDM and JDM petrol engines is 0w20 since 2001, it's the best oil for engine running during warmup, and it's the best oil in engines engineered for this oil. I would never use a 0w20 in a Fiat 1.2 Fire engine, as I would never use a 10w40 in a L13B2 Honda engine.
My 2006 1.2 DSi I just use the oil Honda recommend in this chart from the manual.
(https://i.imgur.com/5axufUL.jpg)
As you can see, 10w-40 is good down to -20C, about 15C lower than I ever experience here.
-
My 2006 1.2 DSi I just use the oil Honda recommend in this chart from the manual.
(https://i.imgur.com/5axufUL.jpg)
As you can see, 10w-40 is good down to -20C, about 15C lower than I ever experience here.
10w40 is acceptable, but it is not the best oil for your engine, that is not the L13B2 of our GK3.
The chart shows allowed viscosities depending from the outside temperature but if you consider the range from -10° and +30°C, there will be better and worst viscosities even if they are all allowed. The 0w20 is the better viscosity for fuel economy (it drags less power than other lubricants) but also considering protection (an oil must flow the quickier it can when you start the engine, and a 0w20 definetly flows better than a 5w30 or a 10w40). A sinthetic 5w30 gives more protection at high temperatures and loads thanks by the higher HTHS value, but our standard engines do not reach so high performances so they do not need high HTHS; consider that the turbocharged petrol engines of the new Civic use a 0w20 factory fill (sinthetic, HT06 specific), so why should I put a more protective oil on a 1.3 naturally aspirated?
A suggestion: when you compare oils, do not use viscosity as main parameter but read technical data sheets and compare HTHS, Noack, Viscosity Index, Viscosity at 100°, Viscosity at 40° and Viscosity at about -30°. Those are "hot" parameters for the evaluation and you will notice that oils with the same SAE viscosity can have big differencies in HTHS or viscosity at 40°.
-
I use a 5w-30, after being told by an oil company engineer that a slightly thicker oil was recommended for a high mileage engine. Mine has done 120,000 miles. My last 10 tankfuls have averaged over 60 mpg, so I am not too concerned about the fuel efficiency of the thinner oil.
The 10w-40 was just an interim couple of top ups approaching my service and oil change. I had it in the garage (for the lawnmower), and as I had no 5w-30 I thought it better than low oil.
-
on mine i never heared the noise before the first service on 23rd sept and then last monday (30th oct) back to work i noticed it making the noise
i hope they didnt start the car without oil or something, but seeing as the noise isnt there when you start the car and then is there a few mins later and then goes away again a few mins after that and is worse in colder weather (5c) but still there at 15c
-
I use a 5w-30, after being told by an oil company engineer that a slightly thicker oil was recommended for a high mileage engine. Mine has done 120,000 miles. My last 10 tankfuls have averaged over 60 mpg, so I am not too concerned about the fuel efficiency of the thinner oil.
yep, thicker oils are better in high mileage engines, and usually you start using this kind of lubricant when you see an increased oil consumption. Until the engine does not drink oil, you can keep using low viscosity lubricants.
The 10w-40 was just an interim couple of top ups approaching my service and oil change. I had it in the garage (for the lawnmower), and as I had no 5w-30 I thought it better than low oil.
Ok. Last week I've thrown in the garbage some oil bottles with the classic "glass of oil" inside, I mean the residue of the oil changes I made last years... Ok, it's unused oil, but it's "old" because it touched the air, so it has been oxidized. I use this oil only for topping, never for an entire oil change.
-
Synthetic oil is normally good for 5 years.
One way to avoid the problem of oil expiration is to only purchase the amount of oil that you will need in order to change your oil for this one time. However, given the cost savings of buying oil in bulk, some drivers prefer to stock up on the oil. In general, you should expect that your oil will last at least five years.
As you might expect, bottles of oil that have not been opened tend to last longer than bottles of oil that have already been opened. Thus, you should try to open only one bottle of oil at a time and use any opened bottles for your next oil change. This will prevent you from having multiple bottles of opened motor oil.
https://myengineneeds.com/does-synthetic-motor-oil-ever-expire/ (https://myengineneeds.com/does-synthetic-motor-oil-ever-expire/)
-
The oil gets pretty badly oxidized inside the engine, and it is in there for 12 months on most cars - tip unused oil into smaller container and there is less volume of air, and therefore less oxygen in the container to oxidize the oil - simples.....
-
so to get back on track, has anyone else had this tick after oil change
ok when first started, about 1/2 mile later light valve type tick and then fades away after a few mins
dont know weather to call the dealer as it is 50 miles away and it will need an overnight stay to be confirmed and even if they hear it what they going to do strip the engine? i dont think they will go that far as its just got over 5000 miles on it and is a year old (i have owned it for 6 months and it had 16 miles on it when i got it)
i just hope they didnt start it with no oil by mistake or that stop start thinking they turned it off, but if that was the case it would make the noise all the time and not heat related as it is now
i also had the gearbox mount replaced and the 5th gear is more notchy now but that couldn't have anything to do with it i suppose
i must make a video for you all to have a listen
-
here is the video
just driven one mile from overnight cold as it doesn't make the noise from start and it goes away slightly after this video
just had first dealer service at just under 5000 miles 0/20 mobile one fully synth used and oil is at the max mark with no consumption
the noise to listen for is just after i let off the revs (like a clatter noise)
what do you guys think, normal or not or just getting colder weather?
thanks
-
Sounds exactly like mine in cold weather. Goes off quite quickly.
-
IMHO any slight noise that is only there when cold and goes away as engine warms up is nothing to lose any sleep over.... engines are designed with clearances to be correct when engine is warm..
-
thank you all :D
it was probably just a coincidence that i had the service and then a week later noticed the noise
and the engine is 5000 miles so prob loosening up from manufacture which could be a factor too after oil change
and when it is warm it sounds just like my mk2 jazz did
thanks for all your replys, im glad the video sounds normal to you guys
-
Looks like a valve with a slighty high clearance, the same noise of my cold engine but with more clicks. No problem for me considering that I can hear it only for some minutes after a cold start. The L13B does not have hydraulic tappets, so this noise can be intended as standard during warmup.
-
Looks like a valve with a slighty high clearance, the same noise of my cold engine but with more clicks. No problem for me considering that I can hear it only for some minutes after a cold start. The L13B does not have hydraulic tappets, so this noise can be intended as standard during warmup.
thank you so much for your reply, i think your right, it does go quiet after 5 mins or so so just one cylinder (nearest the cam chain) has a slightly looser exhaust valve
i was worried it would damage the lobe on the crank shaft if left
it must have been the cold weather and the oil change at the service that brought the noise on
-
No, I'm not worried about damages to the lobe, first because the lobe push a roller and not directly the tappet, second because the noise ends when the engine warms, third because the first thing to be damaged is the valve seat.
In user manual of our cars sold in USA, (1.5 16v), you can read "Adjust the valves during services A, B, 1, 2, or 3 if
they are noisy."
-
My tappets start off quiet, get a little rattle after about a mile, then quieten down completely. Remember, it is not just the valve stems that expand as the engine starts to warm. So does the alloy cylinder head and everything else.
-
For some reason I don't know, the raised idle speed reduces the tappet noise: that's why when you start the engine seems to hear less clickings... Then, during warm up, the idle speed decreases and you start hearing the noise until the engine reaches the correct temperature.
-
thanks for your input guys
the reason i first posted about this noise is because i dont remember hearing the tap noise before i had the first service done and as i had it done on the monday i didnt notice this noise until i went to work the following monday which is a short drive and also the weather went colder too. the car has 5500 miles on it now so may be loosening up a bit after i ran it in for 2000 miles.
anyway if you guys think it is within operating limits with the rollers on the lobes i feel better about it.
i did another video today concentrating on the back of the engine and the tap is clear, incase this video helps anyone else with this noise before warm up (notice the tap was frequent at the start and then less so at the end of the video) and also just filter out the normal jazz noise the tap noise is just at the rear of the engine, also the video was taken after 1 mile of driving from overnight cold.
thanks again guys
-
has anyone here had to go to the dealer for valve work which has to be done when cold and as i drive 50 miles to my dealer it will be red hot when i get there
if so how long did the adjustment take and did you get a loaner car
thanks
im sure now it is the exhaust valves on number 1 cylinder slightly more gappy than they should (the other 3 cylinders are normal sounding) and after driving my short distance to work today hearing the tap noise when revving with the door open i want to get it sorted, it took 15 mins today at 10c to get to a normal noise but if i drove longer or the weather was warmer i would never notice the noise inside the car with the window up as it isnt loud from first start up but the camera has caught fast tap noise from cold startup from that exhaust valve that i will post a video of soon
thanks
my car is 68 plate with just under 6000 miles so still under warranty and had its first service in sept