Author Topic: Aircon not working  (Read 2865 times)

john24

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Aircon not working
« on: July 04, 2021, 04:12:12 PM »
Hi everyone,

I have been having issues with aricon lately not cooling when on. So I took it to local garage (Kwik-fit) for a test. They tested the sysem and discovered no leaks thus proceeded with gas recharge after which nothing chnaged and still no real cooling with aircon on. I was told it must be an internal system issue which they didn't have the quipment to diagnose.
So with new gas and no leaks, what else could be causing an issue?

Thanks

nowster

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Re: Aircon not working
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2021, 05:01:32 PM »
One common failure is the clutch mechanism by which the aircon is driven by one of the belts. There's a solenoid that's supposed to kick it in.

culzean

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Re: Aircon not working
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2021, 05:12:38 PM »
Hi everyone,

I have been having issues with aricon lately not cooling when on. So I took it to local garage (Kwik-fit) for a test. They tested the sysem and discovered no leaks thus proceeded with gas recharge after which nothing chnaged and still no real cooling with aircon on. I was told it must be an internal system issue which they didn't have the quipment to diagnose.
So with new gas and no leaks, what else could be causing an issue?

Thanks

Are the fans under bonnet working when aircon is switched on ( both of the large radiator fans under bonnet should rotate,  they hard to miss as are pretty noisy ).  Next check is the compressor clutch operating ( you will need a torch even in daylight to check ) with bonnet open and engine running and aircon on, with coldest selected, you will need to find auxiliary drive belt pulleys ( the pulleys are all on drivers side of engine unless your car is LHD ) the highest pulley nearest front of car is alternator,  there is another pulley below it,  and you need to shine a torch way down to 3rd pulley to see if the centre of pulley is rotating - the outside of this pulley rotates all the time,  the centre of pulley is attached to compressor and only rotates when clutch magnetic solenoid coil is energised.  If the fans do not rotate could be relay broken or stuck or a blown fuse,  if the compressor drive not rotating could be a relay ( fan and compressor relays are separate ) a fuse or the solenoid clutch coil failed.    Plenty of recent threads on here about aircon problems,  it seems to be one of the main sources of strife on a Jazz,  but 99% of the time it is low gas..... rarely it is a stuck relay or blown fuse, never seen anyone on here have the clutch solenoid coil fail.

Be careful around the drive belt and pulleys,  look but don't touch - that belt will have your fingers or hand off before you can say 'ouch'.....   good luck
« Last Edit: July 04, 2021, 05:32:25 PM by culzean »
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D3DSL

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Re: Aircon not working
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2021, 08:43:16 AM »
As above, worth a simple check, hopefully a fix, by taking out the relay, give it a tap then replace.  Hopefully, like mine, that will fix it.  My garage checked the obvious, gas pressure, and didn’t find anything wrong, when they started talking about dismantling the dash I put a halt to any further work.  Can’t remember what made me check the relay, prob something on here, but took it out, scratched head, then put it back and it worked.  ISTR it’s a bit fiddly to get to and I managed to damage the relay case with the pliers I used but it is still working a good few years on.

PS Just watched a vid on YouTube, this rings a bell, even though LHD car.  At 1:53 on this vid.

« Last Edit: July 05, 2021, 08:58:06 AM by D3DSL »

culzean

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Re: Aircon not working
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2021, 09:14:19 AM »
This is useful for testing aircon temperature - measures from -20C to +110C  self contained

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303585881285?var=602816466220
« Last Edit: July 09, 2021, 09:16:53 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Top Down

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Re: Aircon not working
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2021, 03:09:46 PM »
Three different garages found no leaks on our Jazz but on each occasion the regas lasted just three to four weeks.

FINALLY found a local aircon specialist - not just a 'machine operator' - and he found the Schraeder valve on the low pressure side wasn't sealing fully when the regas equipment was removed, hence a slow leak not detectable through simple menu driven machine diagnostics.

He replaced it and now all appears well.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2021, 03:12:08 PM by Top Down »

culzean

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Re: Aircon not working
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2021, 03:37:52 PM »
Three different garages found no leaks on our Jazz but on each occasion the regas lasted just three to four weeks.

FINALLY found a local aircon specialist - not just a 'machine operator' - and he found the Schraeder valve on the low pressure side wasn't sealing fully when the regas equipment was removed, hence a slow leak not detectable through simple menu driven machine diagnostics.

He replaced it and now all appears well.

Good result, no chance you will get any money back ? Local ATS was quite open that the basic automatic empty and fill machines will only detect a fairly large leak ( may be that there is not enough time to detect smaller ones ).

It is entirely possible that the valve was seated properly before a regas.  Even systems that are perfect are expected to lose up to 10% of gas a year due to compressor seals, porous pipework etc.  Valves are always suspect for a tyre air loss as well, and checking and inflating a tyre can sometimes cause valve not to reseat properly.   
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

john24

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Re: Aircon not working
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2021, 08:54:55 AM »
Thank you everyone!!!! for your posts and suggestions and with your help I found the issue. I looked under the bonnet when the fan aircon was on and the normal fans spun up but the compressor clutch did not kick in :(
So I found the relays in the engine bay and swapped the fan with compressor relay and bam the air-con clutch kicked in but the fan didn't spin, thus my issue was a faulty relay.
Will get a replacement one now and see if that sorts it all out.

john24

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Re: Aircon not working
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2021, 08:50:53 PM »
Yep got the new relay and air con is working like a dream, actually it got a bit too chilly in the car :D

Thanks everyone for your help

culzean

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Re: Aircon not working
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2021, 10:19:57 PM »
Here is a handy pressure chart for aircon with R-134a gas

https://www.rechargeac.com/how-to/ac-system-pressure-chart
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Top Down

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Re: Aircon not working
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2021, 10:39:40 AM »
Quote
Three different garages found no leaks on our Jazz but on each occasion the regas lasted just three to four weeks.

FINALLY found a local aircon specialist - not just a 'machine operator' - and he found the Schraeder valve on the low pressure side wasn't sealing fully when the regas equipment was removed, hence a slow leak not detectable through simple menu driven machine diagnostics.

He replaced it and now all appears well.

Just to confirm, four weeks later, that the problem is solved.

Schraeder valve doesn't show up in leak detection as obviously connecting a diagnostic machine or re-gasser to it seals the valve open. However, disconnecting such things meant the faulty valve not closing properly, leading to an undetected slow leak.

Both valves replaced and all is now fine, with icy cold aircon once again.

It's just annoying that three different 'specialists' couldn't think for themselves. Just button pushers really.  :(

JimSh

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Re: Aircon not working
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2021, 11:52:13 AM »
Quote
Three different garages found no leaks on our Jazz but on each occasion the regas lasted just three to four weeks.

FINALLY found a local aircon specialist - not just a 'machine operator' - and he found the Schraeder valve on the low pressure side wasn't sealing fully when the regas equipment was removed, hence a slow leak not detectable through simple menu driven machine diagnostics.

He replaced it and now all appears well.

Just to confirm, four weeks later, that the problem is solved.

Schraeder valve doesn't show up in leak detection as obviously connecting a diagnostic machine or re-gasser to it seals the valve open. However, disconnecting such things meant the faulty valve not closing properly, leading to an undetected slow leak.

Both valves replaced and all is now fine, with icy cold aircon once again.

It's just annoying that three different 'specialists' couldn't think for themselves. Just button pushers really.  :(
Good result eventually.
Glad you got it sorted out.

Top Down

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Re: Aircon not working
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2021, 08:14:43 AM »
Just thought it was a bit of 'out of the box' thinking that might help others.

Something cheap and simple to try before leaping to the expensive 'replace the condenser' option.

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