Author Topic: Driveshaft - warranty fix? - SOLVED  (Read 8059 times)

metallicpearl

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Driveshaft - warranty fix? - SOLVED
« on: September 28, 2019, 08:18:03 PM »
I've had a GE Jazz for approx. 5 months now.

I bought it under the Approved Used scheme from a main dealer.

I love the car but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed with the issues I've had with it so far:

1) Noisy gearbox at idle. The dealer I purchased it from said this was normal. However, it seemed to be getting noisier so I took it to a different dealer and they replaced 2 gearbox bearings under warranty.

2) Squeaky brakes. I've had the car back to the dealer 3 times now, each time with the same issue. They have stripped and cleaned the brakes each time but I'm not confident it will solve the issue.

3) Metallic 'thunk' over uneven surfaces. Had it to 2 different dealers, both unable to find the cause. Had a droplink replaced at one dealer but this didn't solve it.

I have had a look underneath the car and I've noticed that both driveshafts have lateral play in them and they make a knocking sound if I wiggle them.

So, I have 2 questions:

1 - should I expect the driveshafts to be replaced under the approved used warranty which still has approx. 7 months left on it, or would this be considered 'wear and tear'?

2 - would it be a reasonable expectation for 2 main dealers to have noticed the driveshaft noise when checking for suspension-related knocking?

Many thanks!
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 08:54:09 PM by metallicpearl »

Ozzie

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2019, 09:09:25 PM »
Being very wise with the benefit of hindsight, when my previous Jazz died with plenty of driveshaft movement, it was down to a gearbox failure, so I am guessing that there lies the issue, I would suggest that you ask a Honda main dealer checks it out OR get rid asap.

metallicpearl

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2019, 09:21:13 PM »
Being very wise with the benefit of hindsight, when my previous Jazz died with plenty of driveshaft movement, it was down to a gearbox failure, so I am guessing that there lies the issue, I would suggest that you ask a Honda main dealer checks it out OR get rid asap.

I don't quite follow.

Was your issue presenting itself at the gearbox end of the driveshaft, which pointed to a gearbox failure?

I had 2 bearings in the box replaced but the knocking happens over bumps so I didn't think the 2 were related.

Ozzie

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2019, 09:34:27 PM »
I didn't know I had a problem, until there was a knocking noise when accelerating. If the speed was steady there was no noise, even at 70mph. The noise got steadily worse during a 2 hour driving lesson. I then drove the car to the nearest dealer (10 miles) and they put the car on the ramp and said that both oil seals on the nearside driveshaft had failed, draining the oil from the gearbox, but the main problem was the 4 inches of lateral travel on that driveshaft, which they said was terminal for the gearbox.
They then quoted me £9000 for a new Honda gearbox !
Bear in mind that this was after 256,000 miles on a driving school car.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2019, 09:43:26 PM by Ozzie »

MicktheMonster

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2019, 11:40:26 PM »
Re the squeaky brakes, my 2018 Jazz had squealing brakes, the dealer told me it was due to the materials now being used in brake pads (more environmentally friendly) which caused a polishing effect on the discs if you are usually a gentle braker, the solution to this was to give it a good dose of heavy braking to force the pads to bite into the discs. I was sceptical but it worked, don't know if this is the same issue you've been having.

Jocko

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2019, 08:10:08 AM »
I am very light on my brakes and my brakes squeak all the time. As I say squeak, not squeal. 

MicktheMonster

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2019, 08:59:26 AM »
It's a high pitched noise as you brake gently or feather the brakes, for example as you slow or stop on a roundabout or a junction, doesn't do it when you slam on. One man's Squeek another man's Squeel...

metallicpearl

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2019, 09:29:25 AM »
I've recorded a video to demonstrate the knocking - this isn't normal, is it?


Many thanks for the comments re: the brakes. I am not a late braker and by the sounds of it, neither are other people who have this happen. I'll keep an eye on it :).

culzean

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2019, 10:12:56 AM »
Re the squeaky brakes, my 2018 Jazz had squealing brakes, the dealer told me it was due to the materials now being used in brake pads (more environmentally friendly) which caused a polishing effect on the discs if you are usually a gentle braker, the solution to this was to give it a good dose of heavy braking to force the pads to bite into the discs. I was sceptical but it worked, don't know if this is the same issue you've been having.

Its called glazing and you are correct it is caused by light braking.  I generally try to do a couple of hard stops a week ( on empty roads ) to keep the glaze away,  better on downhill bits as you can get back up to speed without pressing the loud pedal and using fuel.   I will also occasionally pull handbrake on for a short time when moving to try to keep rear pads cleans and efficient,  don't need more than about 5 seconds at around 30mph or brakes can get pretty hot.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

culzean

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2019, 10:22:26 AM »
I would write to dealer you bought car from and state your problems clearly, don't leave it too late.  Under consumer law on buying a vehicle any problem that happens within 6 months of your buying the car will be deemed to have been present when the car was sold,  after that it gets a bit less clear cut and open to interpretation of 'failure' vs 'fair wear and tear'  - I say write to the dealer ( and recorded delivery ) because written complaints are far more effective than verbal exchanges,  which some dealers will deny later.  Keep a timeline of when you visited the dealer etc. etc. as this will become important in any future negotiations, you need a paper trail.  Email is also good if you are able to get replies as this again will prove that you contacted the dealer.

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act

https://www.whatcar.com/news/your-legal-rights-if-something-goes-wrong-with-your-car/n3307
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 10:28:47 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

coffeecup

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2019, 12:17:54 PM »
Wow, seems you are very unlucky with this car!! How many miles has it done, and how many owners??

mike

metallicpearl

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2019, 12:45:15 PM »
Wow, seems you are very unlucky with this car!! How many miles has it done, and how many owners??

mike

It's a 2013 (62) EX with 60k on the clock - 2 previous owners from new, I believe. Full main dealer service history and I bought it in April under the approved used scheme.

Having had the the gearbox bearings done and the droplink done under warranty, I'm paranoid that the dealer is going to think I'm just finding problems now - I wouldn't have found what's in that video if 2 separate dealers had successfully diagnosed what's causing the knock - I an worried they will say this isn't a warranty issue.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 12:49:54 PM by metallicpearl »

Jocko

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2019, 01:04:21 PM »
Just had a look at the video. Driveshafts are designed to slide in and out of the transmission, to a certain extent, to allow for the change in length, as the suspension travels through its range. How much "slack" you can feel depends on the design of the joints, but the slack in the video may not be extreme. Comparing it to another Jazz would confirm whether it is extreme of within normal parameters. Unfortunately I am too old and infirm to crawl under my car and do a comparison for you.

sparky Paul

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2019, 01:08:14 PM »
As Jocko says, it's normal to find a bit of movement in the joints, it certainly doesn't look excessive and I would be very surprised if that's the source of your knocking.

Much more likely to be a bad suspension joint, bush or top mount somewhere, droplinks are always the obvious place to start. Knocks can sometimes hard to diagnose, but anybody worth their salt should be able to find it.

I know you shouldn't be having to do this with a warranty, but get the car on a flat surface and rock it with the roof sills, you (or an assistant) might be able to hear something clicking. If you can replicate it that way, it's in the suspension somewhere. If you want to go further, the assistant can reach and grasp each joint tightly, or wedge a bar in to stop it moving - when the noise goes away, you have found the culprit.

Is it less noticeable in wet weather? Less/more noticeable on bends? How about low speed over road humps? Can you feel anything through the steering wheel or the floor? Is it a hard metallic rattly knock, or a softer thump noise?

metallicpearl

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Re: Driveshaft - warranty fix?
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2019, 01:11:04 PM »
Just had a look at the video. Driveshafts are designed to slide in and out of the transmission, to a certain extent, to allow for the change in length, as the suspension travels through its range. How much "slack" you can feel depends on the design of the joints, but the slack in the video may not be extreme. Comparing it to another Jazz would confirm whether it is extreme of within normal parameters. Unfortunately I am too old and infirm to crawl under my car and do a comparison for you.

Thankyou - that makes sense :). My issue isn't necessarily the movement (though I'm not sure if they are supposed to move from side to side), it's the knocking noise which comes from the wheel end of the shaft, which I think may be the cause of the knocking over uneven surfaces.

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