Author Topic: Heavy Smoke on Right Turns???  (Read 565 times)

Tim M

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Heavy Smoke on Right Turns???
« on: December 13, 2024, 10:02:34 PM »
We have a 2004 Jazz 1.3 that runs like a top except on spirited off ramps (especially the 270 degree curves) will spew bluish smoke out the tail pipe.  We have connected this to the loss of oil in the sump - 2 quarts in 4000 miles.  No leaks on the ground - thankfully.  Honestly, it could be on left turns as well, but no opportunities here in Germany to demonstrate that easily.

Admittedly, I've fitted this Jazz with Eibach sport springs and drive it on the 'cam' as much as possible...which means round the corners with gusto!  But this Jazz will leave a smoke screen when warm, higher rpm, and hard corner - why?  It is not the piston rings - no smoke any other time.  Not the valve seals as it happens on neutral and full throttle.

Additionally, we've had two other Jazz's and neither have had this issue driven the same way.

It appears the oil puddles and then when we turn it flows into the intake manifold somehow.  The hose going to the intake piping after the air filter and before the throttle body is dry.  I wonder if the PCV valve is not functioning correctly?  Or maybe the baffles in the valve cover (are there any?) are causing an issue...

I can't take this on the Nurburgring if every hard right corner, it puts out a smokescreen!  :-)

Marco1979

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Re: Heavy Smoke on Right Turns???
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2024, 07:46:44 AM »
Are you sure it is engine related? Seems like one of the tires is touching another part when cornering.

Tim M

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  • My Honda: 2008 Honda Jazz 1.2
Re: Heavy Smoke on Right Turns???
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2024, 08:58:45 PM »
Marco:  Thanks for the reply.  Good point, but truthfully, we will see the smoke slightly delayed and even when straightening up after the turn...depending on the length and lateral force.  We will also occasionally see it on start up - like the oil pools in the intake manifold and then at a point will be ingested.  We've also had two different sets of tires/wheels on it.

It does sync with the heavy oil consumption we are seeing...the other 2 Jazz's have next to no consumption and this current Jazz doesn't have many miles - ~95,000...relatively speaking.

Thanks.

CRC

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Re: Heavy Smoke on Right Turns???
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2024, 06:32:30 PM »
Hmm .... well, obviously the oil has to be able to get into the combustion space above the pistons somehow, and there's a limited number of ways it can do that.

1. It sneaks past the piston rings - compression and oil control rings.
2. It leaks down the valve stems due to worn valve seals.
3. It comes in as a mist of fine oil droplets in the combustion air.

If 2, then it will tend to smoke on start up, but will clear with time.
If 1, then high rpm will make the smoke worse as more oil is introduced due to the higher number of piston strokes per minute.
If 3, then there would be signs of oil misting in the inlet tract downstream of the pipe from the PCV.

The PCV is quite cheap to replace, even for a genuine Honda one, so it might be an option?

On the Porsche Boxster flat 6 engine, there is a similar device known as an "air / oil separator", which is connected with hoses to the sump and the inlet manifold. Inside it is a diaphragm that modulates the vacuum in the sump, and when it fails, the sump vacuum defaults to that of the manifold and oil droplets are then sucked into the manifold leading to plumes of blue smoke that doesn't stop with time.

The Jazz PCV does look very small in comparison with the Porsche one though .....

A compression test on the 4 cylinders might be revealing?

Having said all that, my neighbours Toyota used to drink oil with no sign of any leaks and I never saw any smoke at all coming out of the exhaust, so I have no idea where it was going.

Also, the oil level on our 2003 125,000 mile Jazz dropped a little for the first time ever, and I'm wondering if that was related to a period of very high rpm making sure I didn't stall in some deepish water the other day ....

CRC

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Re: Heavy Smoke on Right Turns???
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2024, 06:44:18 PM »
Oh, and 4. Head gasket .....  but that would normally result in oil and coolant mixing somewhere resulting in mayonnaise.

embee

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Re: Heavy Smoke on Right Turns???
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2024, 12:27:27 PM »
If you're getting smoke on hard cornering check for sure that there’s not too much oil in the sump.
It's not impossible that it has the wrong dipstick, it has been known. Check it's not too short!

HertsHonda

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Re: Heavy Smoke on Right Turns???
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2024, 12:35:38 PM »
Re: "mayonnaise"
On the 2003 Jazz where is the drive to the water pump?

[On a Honda S800 circa '68-'72 the water pump was directly off a cam shaft - consequently any failure in pump water seal (and blocked drainage hole) resulted in the contaminated engine oil!]

CRC

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Re: Heavy Smoke on Right Turns???
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2024, 01:14:54 PM »
The water pump is driven by the auxiliary belt that also drives the alternator and the air conditioning compressor

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