Author Topic: You want an EV but have doubts...  (Read 6444 times)

Jayt43

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« Last Edit: March 20, 2024, 06:58:28 PM by Jayt43 »

Kremmen

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Re: You want an EV but have doubts...
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2024, 07:40:00 AM »
Let's be careful out there !

embee

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Re: You want an EV but have doubts...
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2024, 11:31:03 AM »
I've been watching a number of youtube vids regarding the sales of EV cars. Now I am well aware of the caveats regarding online articles and hidden agendas, but there definitely seems to be something of an issue arising. Things which are perhaps skewing the statistics are the rules and penalties facing manufacturers leading to dealership pre-registrations which count as "sales" in order to get the reported numbers up.
Of course politicians probably don't dig deep into such things and will just quote bare statistics which actually can be misleading.
We are also reaching the stage where many early adopters, businesses etc, will be reaching the end of the 3 yr contracts typically used, so a big increase in used EVs reaching the market is being seen. Bottom line is that there are a lot of zero miles (or as good as) pre-reg cars, some maybe a year or two old, being heavily discounted in order to try to shift them, suppressing the used car prices, plus the swell of used car availability further pressuring prices, and not many people wanting to buy either.
Youtube vids by dealers suggest that there are many used EVs being put up for sale where they have had maybe 3 owners in 2 years, each keeping the car for just a few months. That's not really normal for ICE vehicles. The suggestion is that it is EV owners finding that it doesn't suit them and they want to move back to ICE. Sales of hybrids however seem to be more robust, perhaps suiting real world consumer needs better at the moment.
The big issue is whether the market is actually sustainable. Perhaps it is and the youtubers are wrong in their representation, but I'll be interetsed to see how it all pans out over the next year or two, and also how it affects the sales of new and used ICE cars.
One upside for the consumer of course is that if you do want a low miles EV you can get some real bargains, to the point where you might almost find someone willing to pay you to take one away, dealers are apparently not even prepared to offer any trade in price for used EVs when they have a park full of them already, they just don't want any more examples on the forecourt.
Things are only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2024, 11:33:40 AM by embee »

Toptek

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Re: You want an EV but have doubts...
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2024, 02:22:27 PM »
I've been watching a number of youtube vids regarding the sales of EV cars. Now I am well aware of the caveats regarding online articles and hidden agendas, but there definitely seems to be something of an issue arising. Things which are perhaps skewing the statistics are the rules and penalties facing manufacturers leading to dealership pre-registrations which count as "sales" in order to get the reported numbers up.
Of course politicians probably don't dig deep into such things and will just quote bare statistics which actually can be misleading.
We are also reaching the stage where many early adopters, businesses etc, will be reaching the end of the 3 yr contracts typically used, so a big increase in used EVs reaching the market is being seen. Bottom line is that there are a lot of zero miles (or as good as) pre-reg cars, some maybe a year or two old, being heavily discounted in order to try to shift them, suppressing the used car prices, plus the swell of used car availability further pressuring prices, and not many people wanting to buy either.
Youtube vids by dealers suggest that there are many used EVs being put up for sale where they have had maybe 3 owners in 2 years, each keeping the car for just a few months. That's not really normal for ICE vehicles. The suggestion is that it is EV owners finding that it doesn't suit them and they want to move back to ICE. Sales of hybrids however seem to be more robust, perhaps suiting real world consumer needs better at the moment.
The big issue is whether the market is actually sustainable. Perhaps it is and the youtubers are wrong in their representation, but I'll be interetsed to see how it all pans out over the next year or two, and also how it affects the sales of new and used ICE cars.
One upside for the consumer of course is that if you do want a low miles EV you can get some real bargains, to the point where you might almost find someone willing to pay you to take one away, dealers are apparently not even prepared to offer any trade in price for used EVs when they have a park full of them already, they just don't want any more examples on the forecourt.
Things are only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.
Interesting and insightful post. I'm in a position where I could manage with a relatively low to mid range EV due to the short trips and considered one in 2020. However, I decided to buy our 2018 Jazz which I suspect I will have for a few more years as not wanting another outlay but your post might make me reconsider.

John Ratsey

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Re: You want an EV but have doubts...
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2024, 10:28:35 PM »
One market niche for EVs is as the 2nd car in a two vehicle household for the more local trips. However, the majority of EVs on sale are medium to large as that's a more profitable segment of the market when a smaller vehicle is usually preferred for the local trips.

The time will come when I no longer want to drive long journeys and the EV range problem won't be a issue. However, given that my car spends a lot of time parked outside a house which now has a heat pump, it would be useful to use the EV battery to store cheap mains electricity to supply the house (V2H). I'm watching the EV developments with interest to guide what I should do when my HR-V's 5 year service plan and warranty expire in 2027.
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

His_name_is_robertpaulson

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Re: You want an EV but have doubts...
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2024, 06:41:41 PM »
£60 for 80 miles is laughable. We just got rid of 25 electric cars at work because it was too expensive to charge and unreliable charging points and unreliable apps. Go figure.

Jazzfan49

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Re: You want an EV but have doubts...
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2024, 11:24:27 PM »
£60 for 80 miles  :o that equates to .75 miles per kilowatt that’s some terribly inefficient EV, considering most EV’s are capable of approximately 4 miles per kilowatt and at an average cost of £.79p/ kilowatt on the M1 motorway, so it should not cost more than £18.80 to charge for 80 miles and much less if you charge at home, my only concern with an EV is range and with the Jazz hybrid there is no such problem with it’s average 580 mile on a full tank.
So would i buy an EV well yes once 250/300 miles is possible on an 80% charge on a mid price vehicle as my budget would not stretch to Tesla money, Hybrid in my opinion is still the better option and is what I will go for next.
 :D ;D

Kenneve

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Re: You want an EV but have doubts...
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2024, 10:16:02 AM »
£60 for 80 miles  , so it should not cost more than £18.80 to charge for 80 miles and much less if you charge at home,
Are we on the same planet? Why would anyone want to buy an EV at those electricity prices?

My latest Jazz MK4 Advance, purchased in June24 has covered 2469 miles as of today, at an average of 70.5MPG
Given that the average cost of petrol at the moment is around 135p/lt or £6.15/gallon, then to travel 80 miles would cost £6.97

I am currently paying 22.45P/Kw for my domestic electricity, so any vehicle would have cover at least 2.5 miles/Kw, to break even. Given the high costs of EV vehicles at the moment, I'll stay with E-HEV.

Steve_M

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Re: You want an EV but have doubts...
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2024, 10:38:49 AM »
£60 for 80 miles  , so it should not cost more than £18.80 to charge for 80 miles and much less if you charge at home,

Given that the average cost of petrol at the moment is around 135p/lt or £6.15/gallon, then to travel 80 miles would cost £6.97


Currently my Honda e would cost me just over £3 to travel those 80 miles and that is not at the cheapest rate that you can get electric at, due to low mileage, I have a £0.15 over night tariff with no impact on daytime rate. So no concerns for me to go electric, my wife just loves the car and it suits her activities/mileage, in the six months we have had it, she has only had to top up charge twice while out @ £0.75 per Kw, but only for 10/15 minutes to get enough to get home.

Kremmen

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Re: You want an EV but have doubts...
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2024, 12:31:51 PM »
If Honda were still producing the E I might have p/x my Jazz for one

I don't do used so my Jazz will have to do till early next year
Let's be careful out there !

richardfrost

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Re: You want an EV but have doubts...
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2024, 10:17:49 AM »
I’ve been driving a hybrid since 2017. Not really interested in an EV as there’s a lot of evolution to go through before designs settle down. I fully expect in the next 12 months to go back to a Jazz. Probably a one or two year old low mileage model.

Westy36

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Re: You want an EV but have doubts...
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2024, 05:43:13 PM »
The fire risk of EV's concern me. We took six ferry journeys this year, and each time I did consider this issue. Who wants a fire in the middle of the English channel? Closer to home, the estate I live on has loads of EV's, including my neighbour with a very early Tesla which often makes random cooling fan noises. Far from reassuring!  :o

Bottom line is, EV's are just too expensive for the limited use they are IMHO. Indeed, manufacturers are discounting heavily to shift them! https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/average-discounts-on-evs-are-now-almost-double-what-they-are-on-ice-vehicles/308774

Depriciation is a big issue too. EG Hyunda Kona EV list £35k, yet this Approved Used example at 3yrs and just 20k miles is £12498, and I bet the dealer would be very willing to haggle https://www.cargurus.co.uk/Cars/m-Hyundai-Watford-sp404027#listing=154138019/NONE/DEFAULT Demand in the used car market is clearly not there for EV's.

The ICE ban needs kicking way back, even beyond 2035. If legislators really were serious about the environment, they would focus on manufacturers average vehicle size and weight, which really is the elephant in the room beyond fuel type.


RichardA

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Re: You want an EV but have doubts...
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2024, 08:35:15 PM »
Depriciation is a big issue too. EG Hyunda Kona EV list £35k, yet this Approved Used example at 3yrs and just 20k miles is £12498, and I bet the dealer would be very willing to haggle https://www.cargurus.co.uk/Cars/m-Hyundai-Watford-sp404027#listing=154138019/NONE/DEFAULT Demand in the used car market is clearly not there for EV's.

When I went car shopping back in July I shortlisted the Lexus UX (basically a Lexus Toyota CH-R). I almost got caught out by how cheap Lexus dealers were retailing them for on Autotrader, until I realised I was looking at the electric UX 300e and not the hybrid UX 250h! The EV was a good deal cheaper than the hybrid.

embee

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Re: You want an EV but have doubts...
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2024, 11:14:03 PM »
I've seen reports of the next phase of the problem.  The manufacturers are cutting BEV prices because they have to meet the percentage quotas set by governments, which means that the pre reg new cars held by the dealers which have already been heavily discounted now need to be discounted further to avoid them being priced higher than a new new car straight from the factory. All of which suppresses used 2 or 3yr old prices.
Where does this go?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2024, 11:15:41 PM by embee »

Westy36

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Re: You want an EV but have doubts...
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2024, 09:13:27 AM »
From a dealers perspective, it means massive financial losses and that is not good for business. For example this dealer has marked the price of their VW e-UP! down by 29% in the last 6 months  :o 
https://www.cargurus.co.uk/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=carGurusHomePageModel&distance=660&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&zip=NR1%201AA&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d2423&sortDir=ASC&sortType=DEAL_SCORE&isDeliveryEnabled=true#listing=149895027/NONE/DEFAULT

Reminds me of French and mainstream exec cars in the 80's+90's. Remember when a Citroen XM or Renault Safrane was losing c80% of its value in 3yrs 36k? Mind these days, most folk PCP their cars. Presumably the monthly rates will increase? 

From a used car buyers perspective, they don't look at all attractive to me. Have a watch of this
 
The EV specialists shown in the video are https://cedarelectric.co.uk/. Some scary repair costs involved, and a low number of outifts that can actually do the work.

Bangernomics is going to be confined to the history books.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2024, 10:00:50 AM by Westy36 »

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