Author Topic: MPG for those interested.  (Read 172715 times)

culzean

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Re: MPG for those interested.
« Reply #90 on: July 05, 2017, 11:13:16 AM »
I approximately alternate 97 and 95 RON fuel, but that doesn't seems to be a factor either.

If you say you are not getting any extra MPG from 97RON then it is cheaper to buy Redex and use that to keep system clean,  I did notice better performance or MPG improved* by up to 10% on 97,  but you can't have both because when the engine feels livelier it is a hard choice to drive like a nun.

(* and that improvement was on identical 80 mile return daily commute on basically alternate weeks of 95 and 97 , covering years so IMHO is valid and takes allowance for different weather and traffic conditions)
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 11:49:01 AM by culzean »
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Downsizer

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Re: MPG for those interested.
« Reply #91 on: July 05, 2017, 12:26:59 PM »
If you say you are not getting any extra MPG from 97RON then it is cheaper to buy Redex and use that to keep system clean,  I did notice better performance or MPG improved* by up to 10% on 97
I'm afraid I'm always suspicious of benefits "up to x%"!  I know this has been discussed in some detail previously, but I'm sticking to ASDA 95 and no Redex as the cheapest option.

culzean

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Re: MPG for those interested.
« Reply #92 on: July 05, 2017, 12:50:19 PM »
If you say you are not getting any extra MPG from 97RON then it is cheaper to buy Redex and use that to keep system clean,  I did notice better performance or MPG improved* by up to 10% on 97
I'm afraid I'm always suspicious of benefits "up to x%"!  I know this has been discussed in some detail previously, but I'm sticking to ASDA 95 and no Redex as the cheapest option.

It is a bit like someone saying they don't like something when they have never tried it, an untenable position - a bottle of Redex is the cheapest maintenance you will ever do on your car - I have had gummed up carbs that have been like new after a bit of a soak in redex,  and injectors (and fuel system) do get clogged up with gum from the evaporation of dinosaur juice (which is not as pure as it seems).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQN-0zvZNbY

There is a note below the video that says the car was run on 95 octane (although it needs 97) for the good reason that 97 contains cleaners that would have done what the redex does and they did not want to cloud the issue.  The redex had by far the biggest effect on the dyno figures for the lowest cost.  and you can't really argue with dyno results as they are done under very controlled conditions to ensure repeatability.

And Asda fuel (or any supermarket fuel with well documented lower levels of additives) may not be the cheapest option if your car is doing less miles per gallon.  I like the American system where supermarkets don't supply fuel but give money off vouchers that can be used at any gas station.
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Jocko

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Re: MPG for those interested.
« Reply #93 on: July 05, 2017, 01:04:40 PM »
Just watched Jason's video. I'll give it a try. Asda are selling it for £3.00.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 09:12:52 AM by Jocko »

culzean

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Re: MPG for those interested.
« Reply #94 on: July 05, 2017, 01:28:01 PM »
Just watched Tiff's video. I'll give it a try. Asda are selling it for £3.00.

Anyone who has a shower at home knows how the spray head (like an injector nozzle) gets clogged and sprays less water and in the wrong pattern, and needs a bit of 'limescale remover /de-scaler) every so often to restore its original spray pattern,  think of Redex like that.

If car has never been done before I would put an overdose in to see results more quickly - it certainly will not do any harm. 
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 01:34:50 PM by culzean »
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Hobo

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Re: MPG for those interested.
« Reply #95 on: July 05, 2017, 02:37:53 PM »

And Asda fuel (or any supermarket fuel with well documented lower levels of additives) may not be the cheapest option if your car is doing less miles per gallon.

Rubbish, I used to work for Texaco and fuel we supplied to supermarkets had exactly the same additives as our own petrol stations, also petrol at the refineries was supplied with the same additives to all supermarkets and major petrol companies tankers.

Redex was used many years ago to reduce build up of carbon when vehicles used to get carbon from leaded petrol and needed decoking but is completely unnecessary in modern engines.

culzean

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Re: MPG for those interested.
« Reply #96 on: July 05, 2017, 02:51:58 PM »
Try telling my carbed motorbikes and lawnmower that redex doesn't work - and obviously the dynomometer was telling porkies as well.

There are postings from tanker drivers on internet that yes, supermarket fuel does get same additives, just less of them as they get added when tanker leaves the depot.  Redex may well remove carbon,  but that is not its main purpose, which is to dissolve petrol deposits, which it does very well.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 02:54:36 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Hobo

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Re: MPG for those interested.
« Reply #97 on: July 05, 2017, 03:05:36 PM »
Try telling my carbed motorbikes and lawnmower that redex doesn't work - and obviously the dynomometer was telling porkies as well.

There are postings from tanker drivers on internet that yes, supermarket fuel does get same additives, just less of them as they get added when tanker leaves the depot.  Redex may well remove carbon, 

Sounds like you have problems with your bikes then, I have ridden and maintained high powered bikes for many many years and never needed to use Redex, you are welcome to your opinions but that is what most are just as your supermarket fuel is theory is wrong.

Jocko

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Re: MPG for those interested.
« Reply #98 on: July 05, 2017, 03:43:54 PM »
Well I watched the Fifth Gear video that Culzean linked to, and I am certainly going to spend £3 on a bottle, just in case it does work. Won't do any harm.

culzean

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Re: MPG for those interested.
« Reply #99 on: July 05, 2017, 03:48:15 PM »
You just gotta love people who don't  use a product but can confidently tell others that it doesn't work.  IMHO fuel additives and cleaners like redex exist to maintain the parts of your car that you cannot access.  It isn't as though redex is hard to obtain or costs a lot of money, so it won't break the bank for people to to check it out for themselves, it certainly won't do any harm.
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jazzway

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Re: MPG for those interested.
« Reply #100 on: July 05, 2017, 04:12:59 PM »
@culzean, you are always praising Redex and i have seen the video before and find it very interesting. For a year now i fill the tank with Shell V-Power 98 ethanol for two reasons: there's zero ethanol in the Beligian V-Power and the second reason are the cleaning additives in it.

Yes, V-Power is more expensive, but living against the Belgian border it is there still cheaper than our Dutch Euro95 petrol (with ethanol).
About the Redex... it cleans more than the additives in petrol, but what happens with the dirt it losens? Does it solve and not float to another place? And how would you compare 95 octane petrol (with the 5-10 percent) ethanol plus Redex, to a higher octane petrol without ethanol and better additives (V-Power/BP Ultimate) without Redex?

I have to mention that our Jazz always start at once, drives smooth and quiet, doesn't make weird noises and our MPG (most short trips) are on the left. ;) Also i haven't found a (online) place where i can buy Redex in the Netherlands. There are other brands, but i don't think they are the same.

Hobo

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Re: MPG for those interested.
« Reply #101 on: July 05, 2017, 04:43:45 PM »
Just as you have got to love people that set themselves up as an expert on everything and spout about supermarket fuel being inferior to other fuels, for your information and just to correct your assumptions, I have used Redex many years ago on side valve vehicles to reduce the need for decoking and in the days of leaded petrol, but as stated in modern engines it is completely unnecessary and could do more harm than good.

culzean

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Re: MPG for those interested.
« Reply #102 on: July 05, 2017, 05:03:14 PM »
About the Redex... it cleans more than the additives in petrol, but what happens with the dirt it losens? Does it solve and not float to another place? And how would you compare 95 octane petrol (with the 5-10 percent) ethanol plus Redex, to a higher octane petrol without ethanol and better additives (V-Power/BP Ultimate) without


If you have been using premium fuel your system will probably be pretty clean anyway, but purpose made system cleaners are not expensive.

Anything that the cleaner dissolves is only stuff that is normally in fuel anyway and will just get injected and burned with fuel.

Redex is not the only cleaner available Wynns, STP and others make similar product,  you only need to use it occasionally, add some to tank of fuel about once every one or two months - which means it is not expensive.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 05:47:36 PM by culzean »
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Kenneve

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Re: MPG for those interested.
« Reply #103 on: July 05, 2017, 08:03:11 PM »
Going back to around 2003 I recall that I had poor running problems with my car (at the time it was a Landrover Freelander Auto) and complained to the dealer. His response was to ask what fuel i was using, to which i responded Sainsburys.
He immediately suggested that I change fuel to one of the main fuel companies (is this case BP) and see what the difference was.

I was very dubious about the possible result, but I have to say that there was a significant difference ie, much smoother running and better MPG and I have never used supermarket fuel since. OK it was a penny or two dearer, but this was more than offset by the increased MPG, probably in order of 10%, which of course on that vehicle was only 2 or 3 miles different.

So, i'm now on my fourth Jazz, and I still stick with the main petrol companies wherever possible.
I suppose I could be classed as a somewhat spirited driver, however my Mk3 EX CVT has covered almost 7000 miles so far and returned 52.7 MPG on the trip computer, and as long as it stays on the plus side of 50 MPG, I'm happy.

culzean

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Re: MPG for those interested.
« Reply #104 on: July 05, 2017, 08:48:57 PM »
Going back to around 2003 I recall that I had poor running problems with my car (at the time it was a Landrover Freelander Auto) and complained to the dealer. His response was to ask what fuel i was using, to which i responded Sainsburys.
He immediately suggested that I change fuel to one of the main fuel companies (is this case BP) and see what the difference was.

I was very dubious about the possible result, but I have to say that there was a significant difference ie, much smoother running and better MPG and I have never used supermarket fuel since. OK it was a penny or two dearer, but this was more than offset by the increased MPG, probably in order of 10%, which of course on that vehicle was only 2 or 3 miles different.

So, i'm now on my fourth Jazz, and I still stick with the main petrol companies wherever possible.
I suppose I could be classed as a somewhat spirited driver, however my Mk3 EX CVT has covered almost 7000 miles so far and returned 52.7 MPG on the trip computer, and as long as it stays on the plus side of 50 MPG, I'm happy.

I had a similar experience,  My wife used to fill up at supermarkets to use her vouchers, I used to drive her  car sometimes  (a 53 plate Jazz GD 1.4 which was identical to mine except colour) and I always thought it didn't feel as smooth or responsive as my Jazz.  One day when i was driving her car to work I saw it needed filling up and put almost a tank of Ultimate 97 in it.  I didn't tell her what I had done but later in the week she asked me if 'I had tuned the car' because even she had obviously noticed it was running better.  Needless to say she never used supermarket fuel again.  Now I would call that a proper blind trial because she had no idea I had put 97 in,  or even that I had filled the car really, and she noticed a difference, so that rules out the 'placebo' effect that someone may experience when they know they have done something and 'want' or expect it to have an effect.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 09:06:40 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

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