Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - 2020 => Topic started by: Roddy0000 on May 10, 2019, 06:30:37 PM
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Hi, just had the car serviced by Honda dealer, they have put the oil level at the top of the orange plastic which is a little high, wondering whether this would put a strain on the gaskets and whether I need to go back and get them to drain some off, this is not the first time dealers have done this to my jazzes, would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.
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It shouldn't be a problem as the oil in the sump isn't under pressure so will not strain any gaskets. As soon as you start the engine the level will go down slightly anyway.
Vic.
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Make sure the car is level when checking oil. If your car is lower at the front level will appear higher, if rear is lower level will appear lower. And always wipe dipstick clean because oil splashes around in the sump and you will not get a true reading unless engine is stopped and dipstick is clean.
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i had my jazz serviced at a honda dealer check the oil next day when the engine was cold.it was well a both the level on the dipstick.i took half a Lita of oil outand now it is the right level on the dipstick the top spoton the dipstick that could have blow a crank seal
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The engine should be hot, but left to stand for 3 minutes after switching, off before checking level. I do mine in my garage because the floor is flat and level. Too much oil is not good for an engine.
From my manual: Make sure the engine is warmed up and parked on level ground. Turn off the engine and wait approximately 3 minutes before checking the oil level.
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Thanks, will try this.......think garage floor is level...not sure how much oil quantity there is between the top line on the orange plastic and top of the orange plastic...would not have thought it would be very much, as per 1 comment on here if it was well above the top of the orange plastic then I would think that would be a problem.....
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The engine should be hot, but left to stand for 3 minutes after switching, off before checking level. I do mine in my garage because the floor is flat and level. Too much oil is not good for an engine.
From my manual: Make sure the engine is warmed up and parked on level ground. Turn off the engine and wait approximately 3 minutes before checking the oil level.
It's generally that way now - the idea is people check the oil level after refueling the car, hence hot engine and left for a few mins. Having said that, I haven't seen anyone actually doing that (checking the oil on a garage forecourt) for years.
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It's generally that way now - the idea is people check the oil level after refueling the car, hence hot engine and left for a few mins. Having said that, I haven't seen anyone actually doing that (checking the oil on a garage forecourt) for years.
I haven't checked the oil anywhere for years! I've become used to Jazzes not using any. I hope there's some sort of warning if the level drops significantly.
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It's generally that way now - the idea is people check the oil level after refueling the car, hence hot engine and left for a few mins. Having said that, I haven't seen anyone actually doing that (checking the oil on a garage forecourt) for years.
I haven't checked the oil anywhere for years! I've become used to Jazzes not using any. I hope there's some sort of warning if the level drops significantly.
I have also got lazy with checking oil - like you I have probably had various Honda cars for many years and got used to them not using oil. My first Civic had 190,000 miles on the clock and still did not use a drop between oil changes. I tend to check basic stuff like oil, coolant and washer bottle when I think about it. Sometimes I have over filled the oil and I never bother to take any out and it has never done any harm, and it never caused any oil to get burnt, it stayed 'over full' until the next change, better a bit to much than too little.
There is a PCV breather valve on the crankcase anyway and the way the pistons move the volume of crankcase stays the same, and in a Honda I doubt you get any compression blowing past the rings.
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I hope there's some sort of warning if the level drops significantly.
Yes, the engine starts rattling and eventually seizes!
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I have to check and top up my oil regularly. I had to add 0.5 litre today. On my Mk 1, the oil would be about a foot over the full mark to reach the orange bit!
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I have always used Castrol oils in cars and bikes ( except in early 80's when Mobil bought out their fully synth oil and I used that until Castrol synthetic became available ). I have to say never had any engine use oil despite doing large mileages ( except the dreadful Vauxhall Viva, and that hadn't even done a large mileage ).
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i had my jazz serviced at a honda dealer check the oil next day when the engine was cold.it was well a both the level on the dipstick.i took half a Lita of oil outand now it is the right level on the dipstick the top spoton the dipstick that could have blow a crank seal
Wrong check.
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My oil has been above top mark often in the past on quite a few cars, sometimes I just put whole 4 litre can of oil in ( hate having little bits of oil laying around ) and never had a problem with blown seals ). The way the pistols go up and down in an engine means crankcase volume remains the same, and there is a PCV valve to deal with anything that blows past the piston rings ( never had a problem with compression on a Honda engine ). A bit too much oil is preferable to not enough...
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well why does Honda state in the handbook not to over fill the oil level as it may cause problems
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This random link explains the problems that can arise:
http://www.t3atlanta.com/blog/car-tips/what-happens-if-you-overfill-auto-oil/ (http://www.t3atlanta.com/blog/car-tips/what-happens-if-you-overfill-auto-oil/)
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well why does Honda state in the handbook not to over fill the oil level as it may cause problems
Yes, but you have to check the level following the user manual. It means that you have to switch off the engine, to wait for 3 minutes and then you wathc at the stick.
Checking the oil when the engine is cold and not running from some ours will show a higher oil level.
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This has puzzled me for years. Whenever the/ a garage changes engine oil it is always above the max level. I have assumed that they have assumed the engine will consume oil so it balances out.
However this never happens.
With my Jazz, it is returned from a service such that the oil is 4 mm above the max level when the engine is cold.
Following the Honda manual procedure, checking a hot engine after 3 minutes it is 8 mm above the max level. This because I assume the oil expands in volume when hot.
This does worry me but I understand that as long as the oil does not froth it is not an issue.
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I took the jazz back to the dealer yesterday and made them drain some oil off, they were very dismissive about it all. Was told it was not a problem and the sensor would pick up if overfilled, somehow I have some doubts about a sensor reading overfill but I could be wrong, does anyone have any info on this. Thanks.
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I thought the sensor that detected oil levels on the Jazz was usually called the dipstick. Sounds like that was who you were talking to at dealers!
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I thought the sensor that detected oil levels on the Jazz was usually called the dipstick. Sounds like that was who you were talking to at dealers!
There will be a low oil pressure sensor and maybe a low oil level sensor but I have never heard of a high oil level sensor. I am sure if there was one mine would have been triggered before now.....
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I thought the sensor that detected oil levels on the Jazz was usually called the dipstick. Sounds like that was who you were talking to at dealers!
Absolutely spot on! Is it just to fob you off, or are they really that thick?
There is a reason that some garages overfill, they don't check. Some main dealers now use automated oil handling machines that suck the oil out of the dipstick tube, but also refill the engine with the correct metered amount of fresh oil. If they haven't let it drain the oil properly, haven't inserted the pipe properly, or heaven forbid haven't punched in the correct car details, overfill time.
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There will be a low oil pressure sensor and maybe a low oil level sensor
The Jazz certainly doesn't have a low oil level sensor, according to the schematics, and once the low oil pressure light comes on some damage has possibly been done. Mind you, you are better with low oil pressure and oil flow than high oil pressure and no oil flow!
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Mind you, you are better with low oil pressure and oil flow than high oil pressure and no oil flow!
A bung up somewhere!
Trouble with that oil pressure light when it comes on, if it's because the oil is whizzing out of the side of the crank bearings, it's too late!
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Hi, just had the car serviced by Honda dealer, they have put the oil level at the top of the orange plastic which is a little high, wondering whether this would put a strain on the gaskets and whether I need to go back and get them to drain some off, this is not the first time dealers have done this to my jazzes, would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.
I have just checked the oil level today as I went to the dealer to take some out and found that level is exactly the same and keep me waiting half an hour too. Spoke to service manager this morning to check what the receptionist was saying about a sensor there if overfilled, manager had never heard of this and my own view is that I got told wrong info. There is 1 litre difference between min and max levels, reckoned mine was 0.2 litre over max, told it would definitely be ok so have decided to leave it.
Rang Honda to check if there was a sensor, told you will need to speak to the dealer if tech info needed, hang on, don’t they make the car !!!
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Honda don't do customer support. >:(
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I wouldn't imagine 200 ml was either here nor there.
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I wouldn't imagine 200 ml was either here nor there.
Almost certainly not, but I would usually work on the theory that
____
MAX
means maximum, as well as acting as a useful datum to spot any change.
There is no high oil level warning, certainly not on the Jazz. I've had cars with oil level indication on the display before starting, but I've never seen any car with a warning for high oil level.
In any case, it's a bit cheeky telling you that they have sorted it out, when all they have actually done is wasted half an hour of your time while they have a chuckle about it.
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I wouldn't imagine 200 ml was either here nor there.
Exactly, works out at about 5% over fill, as I said I quite happily tip the whole 4 litre of oil in and use the empty container to keep the old oil in until I go to recycling depot. Hate having 200 or 300ml of oil laying around that I know I won't need for topping up between changes anyway.
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I suspect the sensor story was a bit of the old flannel ;)
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I quite happily tip the whole 4 litre of oil in and use the empty container to keep the old oil in until I go to recycling depot.
It's funny you should say that, when I serviced the Jazz last year, I used sealed 1L bottles... and it took every drop of 4 bottles to fill it up to the line with a new filter. Either ours takes 4 litres and Mr Haynes is wrong, or I got diddled with the oil!
I must pay more attention this time, it's coming out of a 20L, and I'm going to measure it. :-X
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I suspect the sensor story was a bit of the old flannel ;)
Is that the old flannel they use to wipe the dipstick?
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Either ours takes 4 litres and Mr Haynes is wrong, or I got diddled with the oil!
Mr Honda as well. According to the manual, supplied with the car:
Engine oil change capacity
(including filter):
3.6 L (3.8 US qt , 3.2 Imp qt).
Mind you, the last time I changed my own oil it took about half an hour before the level finally reached the highest point!
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Funny you should mention old flannel - we just bought some new fitted sheets for beds and I tore the old cotton ones into about 2 foot square pieces to use as cleaning cloths. Well my windscreen has never been so clean, I was never convinced by those microfibre ones they sell, they never seemed much good but the proper cotton ones are great. Maybe for waxing and polishing paint the microfibre are OK, but for windows the cotton seem better.
They recommend with Fenwicks caravan window cleaning paste ( I have used in the past for cloudy headlights ) to use cotton cloth, I first tried microfibre cloth and it did not work properly until I used a cotton cloth and then t was so much easier and quicker.
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As a result of this thread I decided to check my oil for the first time since I bought the car 3 years ago. I was surprised to find the dipstick handle at the top of the engine, but of course it turns out to be a very long stick! I did it according to the book, hot engine, level ground, 3 minutes, wipe the stick etc, but I found it quite difficult to see the level. The oil was changed only 3 months ago, so is quite clean. Anyway, I don't think it was above the top mark, and I don't suppose I'll ever check it again unless a warning light appears.
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I don't suppose I'll ever check it again unless a warning light appears.
It's a good idea to check it now and again - when the oil pressure light comes on, it's too late!
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I check mine about once a month or so. Same time as I check the other fluid levels and top up the screen jet reservoir (probably gets checked more often in winter than summer, especially since oil gets changed at the service in July).
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Hi, just had the car serviced by Honda dealer, they have put the oil level at the top of the orange plastic which is a little high, wondering whether this would put a strain on the gaskets and whether I need to go back and get them to drain some off, this is not the first time dealers have done this to my jazzes, would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.
I have just checked the oil level today as I went to the dealer to take some out and found that level is exactly the same and keep me waiting half an hour too. Spoke to service manager this morning to check what the receptionist was saying about a sensor there if overfilled, manager had never heard of this and my own view is that I got told wrong info. There is 1 litre difference between min and max levels, reckoned mine was 0.2 litre over max, told it would definitely be ok so have decided to leave it.
Rang Honda to check if there was a sensor, told you will need to speak to the dealer if tech info needed, hang on, don’t they make the car !!!
The dealership confirmed that there was not an overfill sensor so basically got lied to, this is unacceptable and no wonder people lose confidence in dealerships. There is another dealership about 10 miles away so may think about taking it there next time as have a service plan. This other garage is part of the same group. It is a much smaller dealership...I hate being lied to.
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I hate being lied to.
Not great is it, but it seems to be the way of the world now.
I always worked on the principle that if you can't tell the truth, keep your cake hole shut.
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I hate being lied to.
Not great is it, but it seems to be the way of the world now.
I always worked on the principle that if you can't tell the truth, keep your cake hole shut.
We have a terrible skills shortage in UK, basically the people in car dealers were probably selling double glazing the week before and now they are car experts. People used to go into garages because they were interested in cars and had helped their dad fix their cars, but now not many people even know what goes on under the bonnet, and unless they can get a code on their reader they scratch their heads at even basic problems.
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I, like many here, started out with old, clapped out, 1950's cars. You had to learn how to fix them, often at the side of the road. New motorists today have little idea of how a car works, and even us who do, can do little when it breaks down, unless the fault is obvious. Too much electronics to do much these days.
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I hate being lied to.
Not great is it, but it seems to be the way of the world now.
I always worked on the principle that if you can't tell the truth, keep your cake hole shut.
We have a terrible skills shortage in UK, basically the people in car dealers were probably selling double glazing the week before and now they are car experts. People used to go into garages because they were interested in cars and had helped their dad fix their cars, but now not many people even know what goes on under the bonnet, and unless they can get a code on their reader they scratch their heads at even basic problems.
Where to begin. Probably best not to. But I will say this. Ingenuity is a quality I have long associated with the history of this country and it is being slowly strangled by the day for a host of reasons.
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Just carried out a under bonnet check on a 2008 VW polo and noticed this wording on oil filler cap:
To avoid damage to catalytic converter oil must not exceed maximum mark
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Just carried out a under bonnet check on a 2008 VW polo and noticed this wording on oil filler cap:
To avoid damage to catalytic converter oil must not exceed maximum mark
Interesting, never seen that before.
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Makes sense though. An engine burning oil fouls up the cat and overfilling the sump can lead to oil being burnt.
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Yes, it's due to oil sloshing up the bores and small amounts getting past the rings.
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Just carried out a under bonnet check on a 2008 VW polo and noticed this wording on oil filler cap:
To avoid damage to catalytic converter oil must not exceed maximum mark
Interesting, never seen that before.
Most decent engine oils these days are CAT friendly as they are low sulphur and low ash..
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Unburnt low SAPS oil or vapours forced past the rings will still damage the cat.
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So many posts on the oil level for a Jazz. The car on level ground after a few minutes has to have the level on the dipstick between min and max. End of. If the sump has been drained on level ground then it is 3.6 litres to fill. Not difficult.
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So many posts on the oil level for a Jazz. The car on level ground after a few minutes has to have the level on the dipstick between min and max. End of. If the sump has been drained on level ground then it is 3.6 litres to fill. Not difficult.
As I said previously I tip the whole 4 litres in and never had slightest problem despite covering a lot of miles. Too much worrying about small things.
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So many posts on the oil level for a Jazz. The car on level ground after a few minutes has to have the level on the dipstick between min and max. End of. If the sump has been drained on level ground then it is 3.6 litres to fill. Not difficult.
As I said previously I tip the whole 4 litres in and never had slightest problem despite covering a lot of miles. Too much worrying about small things.
Well, I tipped 4 litres in, and it came exactly to the max mark...
3.6 litres just doesn't cut it ;)
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Well, I tipped 4 litres in, and it came exactly to the max mark...
3.6 litres just doesn't cut it ;)
I wonder if 'correct volume of oil' is designed to be halfway between min and max level on dipstick ? My level is always about 5mm above max mark. But then, I often add another 200 or 300 ml of molyslip or liqui moly, I also put the max 2% of moly in my motorbike ( wet clutch ) which is 60ml in 2.8 litres.
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Having done twice yearly oil changes for the last 10 years on my jazz I can say definitely it's exactly 3.6 litres up to the max mark.
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Having done twice yearly oil changes for the last 10 years on my jazz I can say definitely it's exactly 3.6 litres up to the max mark.
Well, mine and Jocko's doesn't appear to be!
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I guessing you're not letting it drain completely. I leave it approximately 15 minutes and get on with something else whilst draining.........
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Having done twice yearly oil changes for the last 10 years on my jazz I can say definitely it's exactly 3.6 litres up to the max mark.
Well, mine and Jocko's doesn't appear to be!
Mine takes 3.6 litres. You just have to leave it standing for a while to let the fresh oil percolate through to fill the last bit of the sump
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I guessing you're not letting it drain completely. I leave it approximately 15 minutes and get on with something else whilst draining.........
Well, this will only be the second oil change performed on the Jazz since we acquired it, but I have done a few oil changes before... ;)
Surely I would get less than 3.6 litres in if it hadn't drained completely?
Mine takes 3.6 litres. You just have to leave it standing for a while to let the fresh oil percolate through to fill the last bit of the sump
My apologies Jocko, I misread your reply earlier and thought you were concurring.
It never went over the max mark, but it wet the mark. I'm still thinking those alledgedly 1L bottles were short fills... diddled!
As I say, I'll measure the bugger this time.
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I checked oil levels today in Jazz and Civic and thought it would be a good idea to take a photo of the oil level on dipsticks. Jazz is the black one and oil does not show up very well, because it is flat it is easy to show a smear of oil on a white piece of paper, the holes are not very visible though so i superimposed a couple of yellow dots on photo.
Civic is the orange one and because it is round and it necks down just after hatched bit so it was a bit of a problem to show level on the paper behind it, so I put a piece of grass across where oil comes to.
My levels have always been round about this in all cars, as I said I just throw the whole 4 litres in and maybe then another 200 to 300ml of molyslip or liqimoly.
Despite doing extended mileages in I have never blown a crankshaft seal or had oil get into the CAT and blow it up.
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I checked oil levels today in Jazz and Civic and thought it would be a good idea to take a photo of the oil level on dipsticks. Jazz is the black one and oil does not show up very well, because it is flat it is easy to show a smear of oil on a white piece of paper, the holes are not very visible though so i superimposed a couple of yellow dots on photo.
Civic is the orange one and because it is round and it necks down just after hatched bit so it was a bit of a problem to show level on the paper behind it, so I put a piece of grass across where oil comes to.
My levels have always been round about this in all cars, as I said I just throw the whole 4 litres in and maybe then another 200 to 300ml of molyslip or liqimoly.
Despite doing extended mileages in I have never blown a crankshaft seal or had oil get into the CAT and blow it up.
So, my wife brought me a brew, and asked what was so interesting on my laptop.
"I'm just checking out pictures of oil levels on a couple of dipsticks", says I in all innocence. The look was priceless,....
It was like a throwaway line on Have I Got News For You!
Considering we are discussing oil consumption, on a vehicle that generally doesn't burn any between services; well.......
Happy Days....Enjoying the forum. Dave.
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Whenever I checked the oil level on our Mk3 Jazz since new, even immediately after dealer service, the oil level always looked high on the dipstick. I thought this was because I was not wiping the dipstick properly or not leaving it long enough after driving.
But recently I was chatting with a friend about how much oil to put in our Honda lawnmower. This also looked overfilled despite using the correct amount of oil according to the instruction book.
Being familiar with Honda agricultural machinery, my friend told me ‘when checking the oil on Honda engines the dipstick is only re-inserted to the detent position, not to the hilt’.
On checking, this does indeed appear to be the case on both our Honda lawnmower AND the Jazz - despite it not specifically saying this in the car handbook. And using this modified technique is certainly quicker and easier.
It seems I may have been inadvertently checking the oil incorrectly for three years.
Have others found this or am I going mad and this is just a fluke on our car and mower?
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I was shown how to check the engine oil by a Honda mechanic, and he told me to insert the dipstick fully.
The manual for the car says, "Insert it all the way back in its tube", and the associated image shows it all the way in.
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Always fully insert the dipstick, as Jocko says. The mower ones are normally on the filler which has a screw cap, hence the difference.
Incidentally, I did the oil change the other week, as well as the full monty on all the other service parts. 3.6 litres brought it up to about 1/4" below the top mark on the dipstick, so as near as makes no odds. Those litre bottles I used last year must have been a bit short. :(
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Yes. Honda mowers have a screw in dipstick. The oil level is checked when the dipstick is placed on top of the filler and not screwed in. I feel like a dipstick now for trying to explain this. It's in the mower user manual. Good mowers. Had mine for 25 yrs.
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Yes. Honda mowers have a screw in dipstick. The oil level is checked when the dipstick is placed on top of the filler and not screwed in. I feel like a dipstick now for trying to explain this. It's in the mower user manual. Good mowers. Had mine for 25 yrs.
We have a Webb mower with Briggs and Stratton engine and that dipstick screws in as well - so you just rest it on top when checking oil level.
The take-away rule seems to be if it pushes in it needs to be pushed in to check level, if it screws in it needs to be rested on top of hole to check level, so with a Jazz - push it fully in.
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I know I'm jumping in quite late but thought I'm going to share my mistery.
Week ago jazz oils got changed. Engine and Gearbox oils. Yesterday i plugged in obd reader as i was coming home and rpms where flowing little crazy. Taking out from first gear in neutral dipped down to like 400rpms with car rattling. In evening plugged obd and gave me oil can on display and hard to find explanation i figured its low oil level. Cut the engine, started and it dissapeared, topped up 100ml oil still not over limit and so far it haven't seen a comeback. Will see today. And funny enough car was cold, drove it around to heat up and rpms where steady.
Could it be that mk2 Jazzes are so sensitive to oil levels or i should be worried about oil pump or oil level sensor.!
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@Hopipola. What model Jazz are you talking about? You say Mk 2, you are posting in the Mk 3 section and your profile shows a 2004 Mk 1. Which is it? I have let my Mk 1 run right down to the fill mark and never had an issue with dropping revs or oil pressure light, hot or cold. There is no oil level sensor.
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I know I'm jumping in quite late but thought I'm going to share my mistery.
Week ago jazz oils got changed. Engine and Gearbox oils. Yesterday i plugged in obd reader as i was coming home and rpms where flowing little crazy. Taking out from first gear in neutral dipped down to like 400rpms with car rattling. In evening plugged obd and gave me oil can on display and hard to find explanation i figured its low oil level. Cut the engine, started and it dissapeared, topped up 100ml oil still not over limit and so far it haven't seen a comeback. Will see today. And funny enough car was cold, drove it around to heat up and rpms where steady.
Could it be that mk2 Jazzes are so sensitive to oil levels or i should be worried about oil pump or oil level sensor.!
First rule: always check oil level following what written in the user manual and using the stick: oil level sensors, especially in old cars and in engines lubricated with mineral oils (semi-sinth 10w40 is a mineral oil with a little of sinthetic base) can give deeply wrong readings.
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Re. checking oil on lawnmowers. The dipstick on Briggs and Statton engines needs to be screwed in to check the correct oil level.
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Re. checking oil on lawnmowers. The dipstick on Briggs and Statton engines needs to be screwed in to check the correct oil level.
Honda engines for portable electric generators have a oil level sensor to switch off the petrol engine if the oil level goes too low: you must refill with oil if you want to switch it on again.
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To quote the 'dirty Harry' films "well punk do you feel lucky?" . Most cars have a tolerance where putting ,say, a 4 litre can of oil an engine designed for 3.5 litres or topping up with a litre when half a litre would have been enough MIGHT not do any harm. Better that than too little oil. But there comes a point where 'too much' is too much. Do you know the 'tipping point' for a particular car ?
There have been incidents where someone has topped up oil to the level of the filler cap. It takes all sorts to make human kind what it is. ???
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I've done sump calibration work. One of the key aspects is aeration. As the crank etc rotates and flings oil it can entrain air into the oil, this is usually a "U" shaped curve relative to oil content (level). Too little oil and it doesn't have enough "residence" time in the sump to de-aerate before getting drawn back into the pump. Too much and it starts getting closer to the crank and gets "whipped up" and can froth.
There is also the issue of oil "hang-up", which is the time it takes for oil to drain back down to the sump, the faster the engine runs and the greater the oil delivery flow to the various parts of the engine, the less oil tends to remain in the sump. You need enough oil in the engine that the pick-up doesn't become uncovered at high speed.
This was a test result on one diesel engine.
(https://ams03pap001files.storage.live.com/y4mjJOC306xwusaUacksuGZNkWizFRJqwageaXzaqZL94cXlkRiMeN3LGZfTWBGyCb2gHaSggyk5Z26SqFPkFK-rz8l1MCqrlYxleYSWa3Auu1NxBcRoeC_xevFSvz1NCZspY8L_kjIRIqzfirIT5tOmlJGWmtipGjqQuzQ9FiN_G1-CmxZRcTqw0g11k5LSm6VY4S7ipZUIO3msNJ2o1Etmp9pxLr_TApW1ZfG08jTtZM?encodeFailures=1&width=480&height=640)
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Many years ago, about the 2005, my sister in law bought a new Fiat Panda 1.2, fire engine.
After 6 months, while she was having dinner with us, I asked her "how is the Panda? Checked oil level?"
"Very nice car", she answered, "oil level? The car is new, it must be ok!!!"
Ok, I took a torch and some rags, opened the hood, removed the dipstick and checked.
"hmm what a engine, very good oil and still clear, I can't see the level.." I watched closely, the oil wasn't clear, it was missing!! Had to add 2 liters to see the dipstick touching the lubricant...