Author Topic: I'm outta here :)  (Read 7766 times)

andruec

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I'm outta here :)
« on: February 17, 2019, 08:23:56 AM »
I've been looking at replacing my Jazz for a while (my normal cycle is every three to four year). Not particularly seriously but I'd already pencilled in upgrading to the new hybrid version when it finally appears. But last week I looked at the CR-V and just wasn't impressed. If that's their new hybrid technology then they are on to a loser. It is neither as powerful nor as economical as the Toyota RAV4. If that's what's in store for the Jazz then I'm not going to be impressed.

Then there's build quality. Those who know me know that I've had various (albeit minor) issues with my Jazz. None were critical but they all irked and some continue to do so. I've also never felt that the interior design was well thought out, with everything feeling thrown together. And as for the technology side, well Honda just failed miserably there. It works but it's a sad shadow of what it could be.

Whilst perusing the Toyota website I noticed how good their range was (although somewhat more expensive) so decided to visit a dealer. I had a good look at and a test drive of a Corolla hybrid. It was great to see modern technology put to proper use (it has a colour LCD screen for the dashboard) and hey, their CVT implementation is smooth as silk all the time. No need to fight with an Atkinson mode - although ironically that's because they can run their engine in that mode all the time.

But anyway I've put a deposit down so that's the end of my 18 years of being a Honda customer. Poor customer service. Poor design. Poor build quality. And now it seems they can't even come out with a decent engine. Perhaps they should have rebadged Toyota's drive train since they make it available to other manufacturers.

It's been fun and even educational on these forums and I might come back with a road test report in a few weeks (but I won't if I can't avoid gloating :) ). Drive safe everyone.

MicktheMonster

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Re: I'm outta here :)
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2019, 08:31:31 AM »
All the best mate, hope Toyota works out for you.

Mick.

Jocko

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Re: I'm outta here :)
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2019, 08:54:09 AM »
Sorry to see you go. Enjoy the new motor.

culzean

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Re: I'm outta here :)
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2019, 10:01:24 AM »
Good choice, Corolla is made in UK ( Burnaston ) - when I worked for first tier parts manufacturer Toyota was our largest customer for chassis and body panels,  and the engineers at Burnaston were a thoroughly nice professional bunch. Toyota had very high standards and the Corolla has been their biggest selling model ever ( it got changed to Auris for Europe ).

At least you have not been lured to German brand by their slick advertising and legacy build quality and reliability ( I say legacy because, as my brothers found out their cars are no longer well built or reliable, they are back with Japanese cars now).

Enjoy your Corolla, my niece had one for years and never any problem, but was badly advised by her dad to get a Skoda Fabia, she has had nothing but grief with the Fabia and is now looking for another Corolla....
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

peteo48

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Re: I'm outta here :)
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2019, 10:55:04 AM »
Stick around to give feedback on the new car. Before I bought my current car I test drove a Yaris Hybrid and was pretty impressed. The ability to glide away in EV mode from a standing start obviates the need for a clunky stop/start system and the CVT is good as well. Didn't go for the Yaris in the end because the Jazz trumps it for the flexibility of it's space and we need this from time to time.

But, at risk of raising an old chestnut, I thought, and still think, the Mk2 Jazz was a more coherent offering to the Mk3 and the interior was much more practical especially in the dashboard area.

trebor1652

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Re: I'm outta here :)
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2019, 11:10:27 AM »
Cars are a compromise, the more you pay the more you expect.(your comment about how much more the Toyota is).
Still your input will be missed.
Happy motoring.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk


Hobo

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Re: I'm outta here :)
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2019, 12:12:07 PM »
I will also be looking at Toyota when I change my Civic after having four Honda cars in the last twenty years, I had a test drive in the MK3 Jazz and was not impressed, I found it noisy and nowhere near as well fitted out and finished as my previous MK2, after reading some of the complaints about the MK3 which admittedly appear to be mostly minor niggles it appears that Honda quality is not what it once was.
 
My next door neighbour who is quite a car buff has recently purchased a Toyota C-HR after testing a new Civic and reckons there is no comparison, he thinks the Toyota is a far better engine, build and ride I have also tested the new Civic and much prefer my model to the new one, so looks like it may be also be Toyota for me.   
« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 03:01:28 PM by Hobo »

monkeydave

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Re: I'm outta here :)
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2019, 01:25:38 PM »
well after having two hondas in the past, a 1.6 se civic and a 1.2 jazz s i will probably be comming back soon after the timing chain and rust issues i have been getting with my 66 plate yaris

you better look on rust issues on toyotas before you jump and my chain is rattling again 10 months after replacement from the dealer so you might be ok....

its a lot of money for a corolla but then the civic is not too far behind and i hate the little tubo engines they use these days

you might be ok being built in the uk as both my hondas were, my yaris was built in france so not so hot

before i change cars i will check if the jazz is now built in japan or china as i dont want a china built car

and as for dealer service, i have had lots of different brands over the years but by far the best has been swansway honda

« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 01:37:26 PM by monkeydave »

andruec

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Re: I'm outta here :)
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2019, 03:25:45 PM »
But, at risk of raising an old chestnut, I thought, and still think, the Mk2 Jazz was a more coherent offering to the Mk3 and the interior was much more practical especially in the dashboard area.
The Mk2 was great. Part of the problems I have with the Mk3 is that it felt like a step down at least in terms of care and attention. The Mk2 had some great ideas, especially how they fitted out the boot. The Mk3 just gave us a polystyrene filler and flimsy floor. The Corolla is similar in that respect but at least there I don't know what the Auris was like so have nothing to compare it with.

Hopefully there will be no rust issues but I shall keep a close eye on it. I don't know if there's a similarly good Toyota forum as this one yet. You're a great bunch :)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 03:28:56 PM by andruec »

Downsizer

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Re: I'm outta here :)
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2019, 03:34:19 PM »
I wonder why Toyota have gone back to the Corolla label?  In terms of market position, the Jazz seems to lie between Yaris/Polo/Corsa/Fiesta and Corolla/Golf/Astra/Focus.  When I chose my Jazz's in 2008 and 2016, I compared them with the larger competitors, as the smaller ones had insufficient interior space.  In the end the decision was based on price and/or reliability, plus the fact that the Jazz gave me the space I wanted within a 4m overall length, with enough performance for my needs.

guest7494

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Re: I'm outta here :)
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2019, 03:56:56 PM »
I've been looking at replacing my Jazz for a while (my normal cycle is every three to four year). Not particularly seriously but I'd already pencilled in upgrading to the new hybrid version when it finally appears. But last week I looked at the CR-V and just wasn't impressed. If that's their new hybrid technology then they are on to a loser. It is neither as powerful nor as economical as the Toyota RAV4. If that's what's in store for the Jazz then I'm not going to be impressed.

Then there's build quality. Those who know me know that I've had various (albeit minor) issues with my Jazz. None were critical but they all irked and some continue to do so. I've also never felt that the interior design was well thought out, with everything feeling thrown together. And as for the technology side, well Honda just failed miserably there. It works but it's a sad shadow of what it could be.

Whilst perusing the Toyota website I noticed how good their range was (although somewhat more expensive) so decided to visit a dealer. I had a good look at and a test drive of a Corolla hybrid. It was great to see modern technology put to proper use (it has a colour LCD screen for the dashboard) and hey, their CVT implementation is smooth as silk all the time. No need to fight with an Atkinson mode - although ironically that's because they can run their engine in that mode all the time.

But anyway I've put a deposit down so that's the end of my 18 years of being a Honda customer. Poor customer service. Poor design. Poor build quality. And now it seems they can't even come out with a decent engine. Perhaps they should have rebadged Toyota's drive train since they make it available to other manufacturers.

It's been fun and even educational on these forums and I might come back with a road test report in a few weeks (but I won't if I can't avoid gloating :) ). Drive safe everyone.


Sorry that your leaving,you have provided myself  and others I am sure some very useful information and views
Good luck hope you have  made the right choice.

John Ratsey

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Re: I'm outta here :)
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2019, 06:44:51 PM »
Nothing in the Toyota line-up ticks all the right boxes for me. The saloon cars sit a bit low on the road, the C-HR looks short of interior space (particularly for the rear seat) while the RAV4 is a bit big. However, I agree that Honda is struggling to match the engineering and overall quality.

Getting back to the original point of this thread that the first drive of the hybrid CR-V was disappointing, I wonder how much is due to fundamental hardware issues and how much is due to software and fine tuning of how the engine and motor work together.  If it's software then there's the potential to improve (although how much can be tweaked before invalidating the current fuel consumption testing).  I find the iMMD concept attractive.
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

andruec

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Re: I'm outta here :)
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2019, 09:36:41 PM »
Getting back to the original point of this thread that the first drive of the hybrid CR-V was disappointing, I wonder how much is due to fundamental hardware issues and how much is due to software and fine tuning of how the engine and motor work together.  If it's software then there's the potential to improve (although how much can be tweaked before invalidating the current fuel consumption testing).  I find the iMMD concept attractive.
I didn't drive the CR-V, it didn't even make the running because it's thirstier and less powerful than the competition. Significantly so.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/honda/cr-v/105262/new-honda-cr-v-hybrid-2019-review

"This, Honda says, is a more efficient way of doing things than Toyota’s set-up. But it doesn’t appear that way based on the latest WLTP testing procedures. While the RAV4 is rated at up to 50.4mpg, the CR-V manages just 40.9mpg."

https://www.driving.co.uk/car-reviews/first-drive/2019-honda-cr-v-hybrid-review/

"If you’ve been sensing a “but” coming, well done… the CR-V Hybrid is a bit of a weakling when it comes to towing. Whereas the petrol model can pull up to 2,000kg (braked) and Toyota’s rivalling RAV4 Hybrid can tow up to 1,650kg, Honda’s CR-V hybrid is only rated up to 750kg. "

So Honda's much vaunted return to the hybrid market is less efficient and less powerful than the established competition. Well done Honda, but no thanks.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 09:43:46 PM by andruec »

John Ratsey

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Re: I'm outta here :)
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2019, 10:25:08 PM »
I didn't drive the CR-V, it didn't even make the running because it's thirstier and less powerful than the competition. Significantly so.
It will be interesting to see the real life mpg in the hands of normal drivers. The hybrid versions of the C-HR and RAV4 manages about 80% of Toyota's numbers https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/toyota/ . Not that Honda always manages to get it right: The 1.5L 2017 Civic gives better real life mpg than the 1.0L version https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/honda/civic-2017.

I find those reviews fairly positive. Not everyone wants to pull a caravan and less power often means more likely to be economical in real life use.
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

guest4871

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Re: I'm outta here :)
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2019, 10:52:14 PM »
We'll miss you!

 :'(

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