Missing Idle Stop and Heated Seats in my new Jazz Elegance

[Tony0707]

Hi there. Just taken delivery of my new Elegance and very pleased. I don't know if this has been covered, or perhaps I am being dense, but the brochure says the car should have heated front seats and Auto Idle Stop. Heated seats I am not that bothered about, but was expecting Auto Idle Stop. Is it there, but I am not seeing it? The website says it comes as standard, but no reference to it in the manual. All a bit confusing.

[ahavoja]

Hi. Try turning off the climate control fan, by pressing the ON/OFF button, so that it doesn't blow any air into the cabin. Then see if the engine stops, when you stop the car.

In cold weather the engine may keep running, even when the car is not moving, because it's trying to heat up the cold cabin air. It produces the heat by idling the engine.

In summer, the engine should stop almost always when you stop the car, unless the HV battery has less than 3 bars of juice left, in which case the engine would run to charge the battery.

[ColinB]

I don't think the hybrid MK4 has auto idle-stop in the same way that a conventional ICE car (eg the MK3) does. The ICE car will stop the engine when the car is stopped, and restart it when the car prepares to move. The MK4 will run the engine when the car needs it, which may be to charge the battery, or to supplement the battery at high speeds, or just to heat the cabin. So the engine may be running or not at any point with the car moving or stopped.

[Kremmen]

Spot on, the engine starts and stops just to keep the batteries topped up regardless of whether you are stationary or not.

The Elegance is listed as having front heated seats. If the buttons haven't moved since my 2021 Jazz then they are on the central heating control panel top right and top left

[Nicksey]

Agreed with the last two posts, the stop/start/idle in the Jazz is completely different to an ICE engine car. I had stop/start on previous cars, and as long as the 12v battery was tip top, the car did almost always stop the engine at lights etc.. but if I had the heating/radio on, it would re-start pretty quickly. With the Jazz, I have not noticed the same type of interaction. Even with the EV battery on full bar, it doesn't always stop, nor do I always pull off in EV mode. I guess the terminology is the same.. but the systems are different. The Jazz is very clever, so I am sure it knows what it is doing.

[Tony0707]

Thanks. Not sure where I stand legally. The brochure clearly states that all models have heated seats, but my Elegance doesn’t.

Thanks for the explanation on the auto idle stop. I now understand, rather obvious really, just me being a bit dense

[FMIB]

The Honda website specification clearly shows that the Elegance does not have front heated seats, whilst the online brochure clearly does.
I am also not sure where you do stand, since if you refer to the usual "get out of jail" comment on the last page of the brochure, Honda states that the specifications detailed do not apply to any particular product supplied or offered for sale by them and they reserve the right to vary the specification , including colours, with or without notice etc etc, major as well as minor changes may be involved.

First port of call should be the dealer, if not already done
 

[shufty]

...The current brochure does indeed state 'Heated Seats' in the Elegance model.
It mentions them in the Elegance section and towards the back for all models across the range.
If you are adamant they are not there you could bring that up with the Salesperson.

It may be that you could reject the car on those grounds as you've only just got it.
They may also point out somewhere in the brochure not to believe everything within it and to double check features and options before purchase.

 

[Kremmen]

When I browsed the Jazz in 2021 the showroom board listing features had 'auto dipping passenger door mirror' ..... wrong

[NoelM]

If you go on the Honda uk website and do a create your car there are no heated seats or steering wheel on the Jazz Elegance.
Do a similar create your car for the Advance and it lists heated seats and steering wheel.

[ColinB]

Thanks. Not sure where I stand legally. The brochure clearly states that all models have heated seats, but my Elegance doesn’t.

If, during your pre-sale discussion with the salesman, the subject of the heated seats came up and he didn’t specifically point out that they weren’t included then you would reasonably expect to get them. Legally that would form part of the sales contract, albeit verbal not written. So you should have the upper hand in any interesting discussion.

On the other hand, if the subject didn’t come up and you relied on the brochure, then you have the basis of a slightly different interesting discussion. The dealer may point to the small print allowing Honda to change the spec without warning, but if other sources (eg website, configurator, etc) differ then it could be argued that it would be unreasonable of them to expect you to trawl through every possible Honda spec listing looking for differences and then trying to decide which was correct.

In either case you should be in a strong position, but it’s not clear what redress you might seek. Do these things have to be factory fitted or can the dealer fit them afterwards? You could theoretically reject the car because it’s not as described, but whether you want to go that far for this issue depends on how strongly you feel about it. Threatening to reject might focus the dealer’s mind though.

[NoelM]

Would be interesting to know what the dealer and Honda UK have to say about it, as there appears to be discrepancies between the brochure and configurator. Plus the usual get out clauses.

[Karoq]

Somewhere, I remember seeing words to the effect that the contents of the brochure may be changed without notice.
If you rely purely on the brochure you are 'stuffed'. Honda will quote the get out clause and stick the proverbial two fingers up.
However... If the salesman did not point out the fact that the equipment list had changed you may have a case against the dealer. Or you could try rejecting the car. In which case, I expect the same response will come from Honda.
Good luck!

[aphybrid]

Maybe if I buy another car I will have the (or a copy) of the specification of car to be bought and have the salesman sign it as aprt of the terms of purchase/sale.

Hope you find a satisfactory resolution to this disappointment.

[John Ratsey]

I thought that Honda had fitted the heated seats as standard to offset the hybrid system's poor winter mpg if the engine is running only to provide cabin heating. Thus a basis for demanding recompense would be the extra winter fuel cost caused by the lack of the heated seats.

Personally, I would argue that the brochure is assumed to be correct if it is the latest version and the dealer hasn't specifically pointed out any changes. Many (most) potential purchasers go to the dealer rather than the on-line configurator and thus wouldn't have discovered the inconsistency.

Chip shortages in previous years were given as the reason for omitting some of the originally advertised features but I would struggle to accept that this is a valid excuse for leaving out the heated seats.