Another "Which" 1st for the Jazz.

[Whiteshark]

Its not just VAG, or indeed just cars. Many respected brand names have  rested on their laurels for years  , charging a premium price for  a  reputation they may have earned over  60   years ago .Even then they  may just have been slightly better than a bad bunch.     Honda's reputation for engineering excellence may be justified.  But many rivals have also improved.    Mercedes  also took their eye off the ball and went through a reliability rough patch. 

Management and cost accountants  who try to maximise  a premium price while at the same time saving a few bucks by lowering production quality and  specifications  can ruin a company.  They may try a few clever tricks by creating a special new brand name  for their  premium products  .  Lexus is just a Toyota in a party frock, Cupra Born is just a VW  etc.(as are Audi etc)  They may have a few extra luxuries and bells and whistles   but basically its just badge engineering snob appeal.   

Some brands are literally no longer what they were , having been sold to India, China etc  - Volvo, Jaguar/Landrover, MG etc.

Not sure I agree about Toyota and Lexus. Whilst I agree they now share much of the same mechanicals, there are noticeable differences in drive comfort and ride quality, which I for one am happy to pay for. If you read the history of Lexus,  ( which in itself is very interesting ) it was invented as a pure luxury brand to compete with the big German brands . It was never badge engineering, as it was a completely new engineered product and stand alone. The one thing they do share is reliability. I have never bought a car for its snob value, and I would think that applies to Lexus generally as they have become much more volume focused and mainstream. The whole Lexus experience is very different from Toyota which is why they are kept separate. I don’t think the market is generally that fickle to not see it is worth paying differences in price.

[Lord Voltermore]

'Snob' may be too strong a  word, and Lexus may not be a good example.  Sorry  guys. 
 
Most of us are influenced by advertising  hype to some extent for all sorts of products. (and by  deranged imbecile  politicians)    Whether we realise it or not.  Adverts aimed at trendy young fashionable people  ,   sophisticated  older people, business high fliers, adventurous  sporty types?  How do we perceive our self, what do we aspire to be,  what image do we wish to project to others?       

Toyota could have marketed the Lexus models badged as the   top end Toyotas.   Why didnt they ?    Discerning buyers would know "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet"  . It may be because the Lexus is in a different ball park for luxury and quality   But IMO its also because  for some  the impression a 'name' makes on like minded associates is important  .  And for a few their attitude can amount to snobbery. ( Would I be treated differently if I demoted my user name to "Sir Kit Breaker  "  )

[Whiteshark]

Thanks for that, but I strongly urge you to read about the “history of Lexus”. There are I think a few now written, that will explain everything to you. I don’t think top end Toyota would have cut it. At the end of the day, the product must sell, and you must do whatever it takes to achieve that. Toyota were moving into a completely different market, taking a huge risk with the unlimited budget they committed. They also developed a completely different product, with new everything for their cars,  nothing resembling Toyota at the time. They had brilliant management and separate massive standalone new factories, to actually differentiate from Toyota. I agree now the two are more intertwined, but that is more about technical development, like Honda.
Coming up with the name Lexus is now considered generally to have been marketing genius.
As you may expect I have driven and owned Lexus for many years, my first in 1997. Took some adjustment, until a lightbulb moment when it made me realise what brilliantly made cars they were.
I stupidly sold my last LS430 3 years ago, and went over the other side to Merc, which I will forever regret.
However we forget this is a Jazz blog, and all my life’s experience converge to spot a particular car when it comes along and my view is the Mk 4 Jazz Hybrid is fantastic, a moment in time, is my wife’s, but I just love driving it.

[Marmoset]

On the Toyota v Lexus topic: I came across this BBC radio recording https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3ct4wdz. 

There is a suggestion that Toyota, who claim to have made great EV progress using solid-state batteries, will probably roll them out as Lexus initially.

[5thcivic]

With the threat of going too off topic here, my brother in law had a series of Lexus which never went wrong but were too "unadventurous" so he bought a Jag. From then on it was back and forth to the dealer until he got rid of it with a big loss. He ended up regretting his adventure.

[Lord Voltermore]

I strongly urge you to read about the “history of Lexus”. There are I think a few now written, that will explain everything to you. I don’t think top end Toyota would have cut it.

I have now read a few bits.  I note the original concept was to build  high quality 'flagship' Toyota. The resulting   Lexus models were sold as Toyotas in Japan until 2005.   Following   market research in the USA that they decided that to succeed they needed to disassociate it from  Toyota ' peoples cars' with its own Brand name and sales network. 

 A large proportion of Lexus buyers traded in BMW, Mercedes Benz ,Lincoln and Cadillac. I've not seen anything that fully explains the various reasons why  some  buyers of these Marques wouldnt  buy a Toyota ,however good.

[Whiteshark]

It is a difficult one in hindsight and you will never know. However you would be betting against the judgement of the largest volume car manufacturer on the planet. I think they were “probably” right

[CB72]

Strange that Acura (Honda) aren't available in the UK. They would be in direct competition with Lexus.

[John Ratsey]

Strange that Acura (Honda) aren't available in the UK. They would be in direct competition with Lexus.

Headline prices to compete with Lexus would be comparable to Honda's current vehicles which would highlight that they are over-priced (or alternatively, are luxury vehicles in all bar name). Given Honda's current UK sales numbers I don't think they want to add to the range of vehicles which need to be supported. Honda used to offer a much wider range, and sold more vehicles, but for reasons unknown to us, have decided to give us a very limited choice.

[NoelM]

I went for a HRV sport ( second one that I had owned and a good car).

...What gen HR-V was that?

It was a HRV 182 sport 70 registration

[Kenneve]

Totally agree with the 'Which' report, but in my locality in the Solihull, West Midlands area, the latest Mk4 uplift Jazz appears to be like 'hens' teeth.
I purchased mine in July 23, have covered 5000 miles and have NOT see another one, other than on my dealers forecourt. Are they just not selling, maybe due to the price?

[NoelM]

Totally agree with the 'Which' report, but in my locality in the Solihull, West Midlands area, the latest Mk4 uplift Jazz appears to be like 'hens' teeth.
I purchased mine in July 23, have covered 5000 miles and have NOT see another one, other than on my dealers forecourt. Are they just not selling, maybe due to the price?

Well it was the price that put me off

[shufty]

I went for a HRV sport ( second one that I had owned and a good car).

...What gen HR-V was that?

It was a HRV 182 sport 70 registration

...Gen2. OK.

[Whiteshark]

Totally agree with the 'Which' report, but in my locality in the Solihull, West Midlands area, the latest Mk4 uplift Jazz appears to be like 'hens' teeth.
I purchased mine in July 23, have covered 5000 miles and have NOT see another one, other than on my dealers forecourt. Are they just not selling, maybe due to the price?

Honda aren’t volume driven anyway, I hardly see many Mk 4 Jazz’s full stop, if they wanted sales to increase they would do a promotion, and I don’t think they are,  so guess that is the answer.

[Nicksey]

Totally agree with the 'Which' report, but in my locality in the Solihull, West Midlands area, the latest Mk4 uplift Jazz appears to be like 'hens' teeth.
I purchased mine in July 23, have covered 5000 miles and have NOT see another one, other than on my dealers forecourt. Are they just not selling, maybe due to the price?

Honda aren’t volume driven anyway, I hardly see many Mk 4 Jazz’s full stop, if they wanted sales to increase they would do a promotion, and I don’t think they are,  so guess that is the answer.

There are quite a few near me in N E Lincs. A few Crosstars, but quite a lot of the Jazz in different models. My dealer says they are shifting one a week.