First impressions of new Jazz SR MkIV Hybrid

[PaultheManc]

I upgraded from a Mark II as it has been my practise to change at 7 years old, and, despite the weird car market at the moment, I was keen to have the new hybrid transmission from Honda; it is very elegant. So I now have a new SR.  My observations:
1. Love the fast take off from stationary.
2. Don't like the engine noise. Firstly when starting, I appreciate the engine is designed to operate economically in a narrow rev band, so it immediately goes to about 2K rpm, but also has a light grumbling sound to it, with similarities to a diesel engine.  I also don't see the point in the engine revving up when accelerating; I understand this is a kind of cosmetic feature to make it sound more 'normal', but I bought a hybrid and see no point in just making noise and probably reducing the fuel economy.
3. Love the brake assist, with no hand brake; for most driving this makes life so much simpler.  I did have a problem with it switched on, trying to creep out of a blind down hill junction (learned to switch it off in this situation).  Have yet to figure out how to come out of a steep uphill side road, with a blind exit onto the main road - any recommendations would be appreciated (I would historically be riding the hand brake).
4. Like the speed limit indicator - a nice to have.
5. The Lane Keeping Assist works well on motorways, with a gentle nudge if the system wants to intervene - but I find in some other lower speed situations, such are around town, when you are regularly having to cross miscellaneous white lined to negotiate in traffic and avoid parked vehicles, the system seems over aggressive.
6. There is a load of other technology, which I just don't feel the need for - but it hasn't got in my way yet.
7. Not keen on the plastic trims on the alloy 15" wheels.
8. Not keen on the whitish plastic highlights on the internal plastics.
9. Very easy to drive, handles well, the hybrid transmission is seemless and overall nicer to drive than the MkII.
10. Seems to be giving improved economy, but too early to say.
Summary - good practical car, as with previous Jazz, improved drive and likely economy but a little more thought could have made it even better.

[shufty]

... 5. The lane keep assist - LKAS doesn't operate below 40mph. It's the road departure mitigation system - RDMS that you are experiencing.

Some systems that are not loved by all on here as you'll no doubt read about 

[Lord Voltermore]

2) I dont think it uses the engine ,with psuedo gear changes, just for show.  Its going to be needed anyway to replace potential heavy demand on the battery.    Noise can be slightly unwelcome at times, but possibly more noticeable  as you tend to contrast it  with when its exceptionally quiet.  ( It always seems at its noisiest  when I'm trying to show off the cars  silent attributes to friends  . )  It tends to be less frequent in warmer weather. 

3)I've only done this a few times so far, but extremely steep examples  , on a visit to Yorkshire.  I thought it coped very well, with the electric drive able to hold the car on its own  by balancing the throttle , and pull away strongly with much less fuss than conventional handbrake and manual transmission.  This didnt seem to stress the car.
The electric handbrake took some getting used to.  I realise now I had got into the habit in my previous car of sometimes applying the conventional handbrake slightly before the car came to a complete stop.  If you do this in the Mk4 it will lurch to an abrupt stop.   

[sportse]

I think the car is also supposed to have hill start assist, but there doesn’t seem to be a display for it.

When stopped on a slope you press the brake harder while stopped and it’s supposed to hold it for you when you go to pull away.

A bit like brake hold, but without the switch.

[Lord Voltermore]

I suppose I must have used the footbrake at some point and maybe got some hill start assist.   I didnt really put much thought into it. It just worked. 

[sportse]

Found the section in the manual - p399.

It’s very light on details, just says that the car will hold the brake briefly when you drive off.

On other cars I’ve had there was a light on the dash telling you it was on.

[Kremmen]

3 ) I don't like brake assist as if leaves your brake lights on blinding the driver behind. I use the parking brake lever so the lights go out.

8 ) Agree, I recently changed the white trimmed dash cup holders for black ones. Not so in your face IMO.

[HybridFan]

Had my EX since the end of last week and on the whole, very pleased with it. Regarding the ride, it is definitely on the firm side. On good roads it's absolutely fine, but poorer road surfaces are not handled well with a lot of thumps, crashes and shudders coming through, but that is widely reported in media reviews. It's a car that is definitely in its element in town and urban environments where it is very refined and a nice place to be. It was certainly well able to handle the motorway, but if I spent my life piling on the miles up and down motorways, I'd want something else. If I consider what my real world driving requirement is, that's basically 16 miles per day, that's 8 miles to work and back again, mostly in crawling rush hour traffic, the Jazz is all the car I really need.

The sense of space inside is amazing, you don't feel like you're driving a small car at all, and the drive train is super smooth. Regarding the safety features, I thought I'd at least give RDMS the benefit of the doubt and leave it on at first, but I no longer do so. Going along on roads that I've driven for the last 30 years without the slightest hint of ever being in danger of going off into the verge, with RDMS I was getting shuddering steering wheel and warning flashes coming up all the time, and I actually found it dangerous and stress inducing. It's never a nice feeling wondering what is my car going to do next. There is no way I could live with that, so now I just turn it off every time. Just 4 clicks and it's done, takes seconds, then you're free to drive your car without the anxiety that it's going to do something you're not expecting.

Tried KLAS on the motorway and I found it very twitchy, constantly moving the steering wheel when it was totally unnecessary, so I doubt very much I will use that again. The same system I had on my last 10G Civic was fine and actually really nice to use on the motorway, but in the Jazz it's not as good.

I set the collision mitigation system to "near" as otherwise it flashes warnings for the slightest little thing. If there was a car way down the road slowing down to turn left or right, you'd get a warning even if you're nowhere near it. By setting CMBS to near, it pretty much never intrudes.

Fuel consumption improves with every use. So far it's showing average of 67mpg and I'm sure as the car wears in as time goes on I'll be getting over 70mpg average and that's in normal mode, not eco, so very please with that.

Overall, very happy with my purchase. The Jazz is a really good car if you do the kind of driving for which it's most suited.

[Kremmen]

Your finding on the electronic aids are the same as me. RDMS off and LKAS never gets switched on. I like to be in charge of the car not the other way round.

After 3 Civics I'm finding the suspension softer. The 8G spaceship Civic was a boneshaker.

[John Ratsey]

Compulsory watching for new purchasers to help you understand what's going on under the bonnet

and

.

The engine is designed to provide a modest power output very efficiently at around 2,000 rpm (I read somewhere that Honda claim 40% maximum efficiency which is very good for a petrol engine). One purpose of the battery is to increase the amount of time that the engine is operating in the zone of optimum efficiency. If however, you want more power than the engine, helped by the battery, can provide efficiently then there's no alternative by pile on the revs (the exact behaviour depends on the amount of charge in the battery).

Honda have never been generous with the soundproofing in the Jazz and the Mk. 4 is no different. I look on it as an audible warning that the engine is working outside of its zone of good efficiency but often I can drive for an hour or more without hearing the engine noise. You should soon get a feel for how well the car can make progress without being very heavy on the accelerator pedal.

[HybridFan]

Absolutely, I've seen those videos and many others on the subject and they are fascinating and certainly make you appreciate your car a bit more when you see the intricate tech involved. The foot to the floor approach is no way to drive any car and even more so in a hybrid. For sure, you can totally drive a hybrid like a conventional car, but you won't get the best results. If you want to get the best results you kind of need to learn some hybrid driving techniques.

I find that less is more when it comes to driving a hybrid. They respond best to smooth, modest, progressive throttle inputs, never more than say 2/3rds, and then actually back off gradually on the throttle as speed increases. It sounds counter-intuitive, but it totally works, the car doesn't slow down, rather the system balances itself and does what it's designed to do. I learned this technique driving conventional cars with CVT gearboxes. I never had any issues with screaming engines that people seem to complain about so much and I don't anticipate ever getting the soaring revs and fake gear changes in the Jazz. Honda have only engineered those fake gear changes into the Jazz at full throttle to appease reviewers who complain about engine noise. Anyone who has done the research and learned about the Jazz hybrid system will know that except for a limited window at certain speeds, the engine is never powering the wheels. When it is, say at 60mph and you floor the throttle, the clutch disengages and the system goes back to hybrid mode. It would be far more efficient for the engine to stay at a constant RPM, but, as I said before, Honda engineered in the fake gear changes.

When I had a 10G Civic 1.5 turbo CVT, it operated almost entirely between 1,500 and 2,000 rpm, it was so effortless, smooth and totally great to drive, so I've never understood all the complaints about those type of transmissions. You just need to learn how to drive them which will be slightly different to how you've driven a conventional auto. Same with a hybrid.

[Kremmen]

The only time I hear my engine is at initial startup in the garage and my trundle down the driveway.

Once out on the road it silently cuts in and out and I only know which from the instant mpg bar.

[John Ratsey]

Anyone who has done the research and learned about the Jazz hybrid system will know that except for a limited window at certain speeds, the engine is never powering the wheels. When it is, say at 60mph and you floor the throttle, the clutch disengages and the system goes back to hybrid mode. It would be far more efficient for the engine to stay at a constant RPM, but, as I said before, Honda engineered in the fake gear changes.

Flooring the throttle at, say, 60mph means you want a lot more power than the engine can provide without increasing the revs. The battery will provide a brief surge of power to assist the acceleration with the faster-running engine then taking over.

I also wonder if the engine is more efficient at around 4,000 rpm than at 3,500rpm so Honda has programmed the system accordingly.

[Lord Voltermore]

Compare  the performance   specifications for the Jazz and the HRV ,as they might relate to engine use,and revs and noise. 

Engine maximum power    HRV  -  79 kw at 6000 - 6400 rpm          Jazz  72kw  at 5500 -6400 rpm

engine maximum torq      HRV - 131 nm at  4500 -5000  revs       Jazz  - the same

Electric motor max power    HRV - 96 kw                                Jazz    80 kw

Electric motor torque    HRV -253 nm                               Jazz     the same

0-62      HRV     - 10.6 seconds                                     Jazz       9.4 seconds 
   
top speed     HRV - 106 mph                                          Jazz   108 mph
           
Sound level drive-by    HRV  -  66 db                              Jazz  56.3 db

These performance statistics dont tell the whole story.   But it seems Honda have had to increase engine  power  to feed an upgraded electric motor to cope with extra weight .
And, on paper at least ,still dont quite match the jazz in road performance and silence  -(but in  real world driving  it may indeed be better) 

figures taken from the Honda site  (which are not always correct) 

[Jazzik]

Had my EX since the end of last week

Regarding the safety features, I thought I'd at least give RDMS the benefit of the doubt and leave it on at first, but I no longer do so. Going along on roads that I've driven for the last 30 years without the slightest hint of ever being in danger of going off into the verge, with RDMS I was getting shuddering steering wheel and warning flashes coming up all the time, and I actually found it dangerous and stress inducing. It's never a nice feeling wondering what is my car going to do next. There is no way I could live with that, so now I just turn it off every time. Just 4 clicks and it's done, takes seconds, then you're free to drive your car without the anxiety that it's going to do something you're not expecting.

As for RDMS: if after a few days you already conclude that it is dangerous and stress inducing, this shuddering steering wheel and warning flashes coming up all the time along on roads that you've driven for the last 30 years without the slightest hint of ever being in danger of going off into the verge, I would at first check if the RDMS setting is on "delayed".
RDMS is not active when you are slower than 45 mph (when oncoming vehicles are running 18 mph) or when you use the turn signal.
If you consider it dangerous, I would start thinking if I wasn't for 30 years driving a bit too close to the verge or a bit too fast... 

I can tell you what my conclusion is after 8 months of driving with RDMS (always on). It triggers sometimes but since the warning is quite gentle and I know what (and when) to expect, I don't feel it as dangerous or stressful. When it once might happen unexpectedly, I just say "thanks RDMS, for the warning!"

Tried KLAS on the motorway and I found it very twitchy, constantly moving the steering wheel when it was totally unnecessary, so I doubt very much I will use that again.

Just try LKAS again, keeping in mind only to enable it when you are driving (more or less) in the middle of your lane. It shouldn't be twitchy. It is logical that the steering wheel occasionally moves. For example corrections for (even the slightest) gusts of wind, which you yourself (unconsciously?) also make.
On the motorway we always use it and are happy with it. Maybe one must get used to the fact that LKAS goes through bends maybe a bit different (in the middle of the lane) than you and me would... But it's easy to correct.

I've been on this forum for a while and I'm a bit surprised that quite a few people approach "that modern" safety technology so suspiciously, instead of giving it a chance, trying to get used to it and make use of the benefits.
And yes, I know, nothing is perfect. Not even RDMS, LKAS or me as a driver...