Author Topic: Jazz Mk4 European Press Release 12/02/2020 Priced from 22000 Euros in Germany  (Read 6736 times)

MartinJG

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All the Jazz's that I have owned have shown this effect of the lights dimming momentarily when the aircon compressor kicks in so I would suggest that it is nothing to worry about.

Vic.

That's encouraging. Even applying the footbrake when the engine is just idling seems to have the same effect to a lesser extent. 

Maraz

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The luggage capacity (with rear seats up) starts from 298 litres and goes up to an impressive 1203 litres (rear seats down, to the roof).

WOW what a shrinkage from 355l to 298l!  :o

Jocko

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All the Jazz's that I have owned have shown this effect of the lights dimming momentarily when the aircon compressor kicks in so I would suggest that it is nothing to worry about.

Vic.
My Jazz doesn't have air-con so perhaps that is why I have never experienced it.

JazzandJag

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I have attached a screen shot of one if the spec sheets on the Japanese website. Whilst I am unable to translate the text, the highlighted figures would seem to indicate the power and torque outputs of the petrol and electric motors respectively. Hence my earlier thought that the combined output may well be around 130 ps.

Downsizer

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I don't know any Japanese, but the text on lines 1&3 (power) seem identical, and also on lines 2&4 (torque).  Looking at the figures, I think you're right about what they refer to, although the press release is clear that the maximum power is 109 ps. Perhaps the electric motor has given up at high speed when the petrol engine is at maximum power.  The wheel/tyre options seem to be the same as on the Mk3, but the car seems to be a bit heavier (larger engine plus battery). I don't see any reference to battery capacity on that page.

JazzMusic

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From the Japanese datasheet it's pretty clear that:
- the petrol engine has 98 hp at 5600-6400 rpm with 127 Nm torque at typically high 4500-5000 rpm
- the electric motor has high a low-end torque (unknown value because they only state the total torque) but falls off above 3000 rpm, this indicated low hp from it. At 6000 rpm the electro power is limited to 109 - 98 =11 hp.
- line 3+4 are the total output of the whole system. 109 hp from 3500-8000 rpm and a massive low-end torque of 253 Nm but only from 0-3000 rpm. Not sure if the engine is going to rev 8000 rpm.
- So the car will feel to the driver as a pretty strong electro car but the total output is limited above 3500 rpm to strictly 109 hp by reducing the electro motor.
- So you're going to hit the windscreen under full acceleration when 3500 rpm is reached. :P
- No hope that the total output will be 130 hp or any higher. At least the car will 'feel' like a 2.5 l petrol engine up to 3000 rpm. But also like a 1.0 l VTEC engine at high rpms.  :o
- Compared to the Insight Mk3 if the manufacturer wants to save costs he does best with the electro components like battery capacity.

I don't believe those 4.5 l/100 km. The Japanese states 38.6 km/l with a quite optimistic test cycle. This would be 2.6 l/100 km. Regarding the technology and the fact that you can reach the manufacturers no. ususally (at least I can go lower than them :D), 3.5-4.0 l/100 km are realistic, sometimes even 3.0 for hypermilers. The CR-V is at 5.5 l/100 km but it's far heavier, AWD and with a 2.0 petrol engine.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2020, 11:19:21 AM by JazzMusic »

JazzMusic

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These are the hp/torque figures of the Insight Mk3. As the torque is only a little bit lower in the Jazz expect the hp-curve to flat out at already 3000 rpm instead of 4200 rpm for the Jazz.

John Ratsey

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I don't believe those 4.5 l/100 km. The Japanese states 38.6 km/l with a quite optimistic test cycle. This would be 2.6 l/100 km. Regarding the technology and the fact that you can reach the manufacturers no. ususally (at least I can go lower than them :D), 3.5-4.0 l/100 km are realistic, sometimes even 3.0 for hypermilers. The CR-V is at 5.5 l/100 km but it's far heavier, AWD and with a 2.0 petrol engine.
It shouldn't be difficult to improve on the WLTP combined mpg if the actual usage and driving style is biased towards the more efficient parts of the test. For example, Honda's WLTP mpgs for the 2019 CVT HR-V are:  low = 32.5 mpg; medium = 46.3 mpg; high = 49.6 mpg; extra high = 38.7 mpg; combined = 42.5 mpg (for definitions of these tests see https://www.wltpfacts.eu/what-is-wltp-how-will-it-work/ which says "The WLTP driving cycle is divided into four parts with different average speeds: low, medium, high and extra high. Each part contains a variety of driving phases, stops, acceleration and braking phases. For a certain car type, each powertrain configuration is tested with WLTP for the car’s lightest (most economical) and heaviest (least economical) version." I do most of my driving ambling along at 40 to 60 mph and the lifetime fuel consumption of my 2016 HR-V is just over 50 mpg. Under the same conditions I reckon that the Mk 4 Jazz should be good for near 70 mpg (I averaged 62.8 mpg over the year I owned a Mk 3 Jazz).
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

jazzaro

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This is the NEDC cycle



Temperature between 20° and 30°C
11km, 13minutes in city mode and 7 in motorway;
average speed 33km/h, max speed 120km/h, in the 25%of the time the vehicle does not move;
aircon can stay off, as other devices as fan and lights.
And this the new WLTP



23°C temperature, 23km, about 30minutes, average speed 47km/h and top speed over 130km/h, aircon must be on and each configuration (tyres, aerodynamics, ..) has to be tested.
I don't know the japanese cycle, but it should be lighter than our old Nedc...


JazzMusic

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Those 4.5 l/100 km are wrong. On the German they talk of 3.6 and 3.9 l/100 km, the later for the Crossstar.
https://www.msn.com/de-de/auto/nachrichten/honda-jazz-ehev-alles-zum-neuen-hybridantrieb/ar-BBZXqpw?li=AAFtapg

jazzaro

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In the italian press release they talk about a combined wltp of 4,5lx100km for the standard Jazz and 4,8lx100km for the crosstar (102 and 108g/km CO2).
Just for comparison, a standard 1.2 hybrid Suzuki Swift has a 113g/km CO2 emission value and a 5,0lx100km wltp combined consumption.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2020, 07:14:17 PM by jazzaro »

Downsizer

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In the italian press release they talk about a combined wltp of 4,5lx100km for the standard Jazz and 4,8lx100km for the crosstar (102 and 108g/km CO2).
Just for comparison, a standard 1.2 hybrid Suzuki Swift has a 113g/km CO2 emission value and a 5,0lx100km wltp combined consumption.
I think 4.5 is the combined WLTP figure.  3.6 must be the low one, and equates to 79 mpg, which cannot be realistic for real world driving.

Jocko

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This would be 2.6 l/100 km.
108.6 mpg, In your dreams.

jazzaro

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In the italian press release they talk about a combined wltp of 4,5lx100km for the standard Jazz and 4,8lx100km for the crosstar (102 and 108g/km CO2).
Just for comparison, a standard 1.2 hybrid Suzuki Swift has a 113g/km CO2 emission value and a 5,0lx100km wltp combined consumption.
I think 4.5 is the combined WLTP figure.  3.6 must be the low one, and equates to 79 mpg, which cannot be realistic for real world driving.
Yes, it is, I wrote it.
https://hondanews.eu/eu/en/cars/media/pressreleases/200543/all-new-honda-jazz-delivers-powerful-hybrid-performance-and-advanced-connectivity-3
3.6 could be obtained using the NEDC cycle: they also write about 82g/km CO2.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2020, 09:17:14 PM by jazzaro »

jazzaro

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Quote
The luggage capacity (with rear seats up) starts from 298 litres and goes up to an impressive 1203 litres (rear seats down, to the roof).

WOW what a shrinkage from 355l to 298l!  :o
The new hybrid Jazz loses the space under the boot floor, that's why the capacity decreased. Apart from this, the normal boot space (what you find when you open the boot) should be the same of the present MK3.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 08:21:19 AM by jazzaro »

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