Author Topic: Tyre replacement  (Read 3019 times)

Twd99

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Tyre replacement
« on: March 08, 2019, 03:20:30 PM »
Hi...
The original tyre is Dunlop  Sport 2030 185/55/R16 83H.

I am trying to replace the front pairs , however they seems have discontinued from Dunlop.

Dunlop technical recommended to replace with Dunlop FastResponse but was told the side wall will be stiffer.
Has anyone tried the recommended tyres or have they tried others?

The rear tyres still have good 4mm thread so they will have to stay for the time being.

mikebore

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Re: Tyre replacement
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2019, 03:27:34 PM »
On my Mk2 I switched to Dunlop Fast Response when my Michelin Energy Savers wore out.

Big mistake. The stiffer sidewall made the cabin noticeably noisier and "thumpier", even though the noise rating of the Dunlops is very good. I think it is assessed for tread noise impact on the local environment, not cabin comfort.

monkeydave

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Re: Tyre replacement
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2019, 06:43:30 PM »
always use mitchelin energy savers i got over 30000 miles out the fronts without rotation and they still had over 2mm left


Downsizer

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Re: Tyre replacement
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2019, 09:53:42 PM »
always use mitchelin energy savers i got over 30000 miles out the fronts without rotation and they still had over 2mm left
My recent 30,000 mile service recorded 4 mm remaining on the front Michelin energy savers.  I shall certainly buy the same when the time comes to replace them.

culzean

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Re: Tyre replacement
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2019, 09:17:31 AM »
always use mitchelin energy savers i got over 30000 miles out the fronts without rotation and they still had over 2mm left
My recent 30,000 mile service recorded 4 mm remaining on the front Michelin energy savers.  I shall certainly buy the same when the time comes to replace them.

I agree Michelin last a long time, but in terms of real grip they are not good.  I used to fit them because of my large annual mileage but noticed on some junction pulling away traction control used to kick in, and braking the ABS could get quite busy and when getting a move on on twisty roads the car felt a bit ' squirmy' .  Now we have Avons on Civic and Jazz and I noticed straight away that on same junctions  the traction control light stayed off, we also had a lot of rain just after they were fitted and I deliberately went out and did some emergency stops, the ABS hardly cut in at all, also the cars feel a lot more planted through bends.

The Michelin do wear well, but at the expense of grip ( in my many years of driving this has been a constant thing with Michelin), anyone doing average annual mileage will be better with more grippy tyres, and let's face it Michelin are not cheap, especially in the 185/55R16 size.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Downsizer

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Re: Tyre replacement
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2019, 02:44:10 PM »
always use mitchelin energy savers i got over 30000 miles out the fronts without rotation and they still had over 2mm left
My recent 30,000 mile service recorded 4 mm remaining on the front Michelin energy savers.  I shall certainly buy the same when the time comes to replace them.

I agree Michelin last a long time, but in terms of real grip they are not good.  I used to fit them because of my large annual mileage but noticed on some junction pulling away traction control used to kick in, and braking the ABS could get quite busy and when getting a move on on twisty roads the car felt a bit ' squirmy' .  Now we have Avons on Civic and Jazz and I noticed straight away that on same junctions  the traction control light stayed off, we also had a lot of rain just after they were fitted and I deliberately went out and did some emergency stops, the ABS hardly cut in at all, also the cars feel a lot more planted through bends.

The Michelin do wear well, but at the expense of grip ( in my many years of driving this has been a constant thing with Michelin), anyone doing average annual mileage will be better with more grippy tyres, and let's face it Michelin are not cheap, especially in the 185/55R16 size.

According to the National Tyre web-site, Michelin energy+ are graded A for wet grip compared to grade B for Avon ZT7 and are also very slightly quieter, but certainly more expensive.  However, your real life experience is probably a better guide than lab tests, and there are other grades of Avon tyres. What are you using?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2019, 04:24:06 PM by Downsizer »

culzean

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Re: Tyre replacement
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2019, 03:50:23 PM »
always use mitchelin energy savers i got over 30000 miles out the fronts without rotation and they still had over 2mm left
My recent 30,000 mile service recorded 4 mm remaining on the front Michelin energy savers.  I shall certainly buy the same when the time comes to replace them.

I agree Michelin last a long time, but in terms of real grip they are not good.  I used to fit them because of my large annual mileage but noticed on some junction pulling away traction control used to kick in, and braking the ABS could get quite busy and when getting a move on on twisty roads the car felt a bit ' squirmy' .  Now we have Avons on Civic and Jazz and I noticed straight away that on same junctions  the traction control light stayed off, we also had a lot of rain just after they were fitted and I deliberately went out and did some emergency stops, the ABS hardly cut in at all, also the cars feel a lot more planted through bends.

The Michelin do wear well, but at the expense of grip ( in my many years of driving this has been a constant thing with Michelin), anyone doing average annual mileage will be better with more grippy tyres, and let's face it Michelin are not cheap, especially in the 185/55R16 size.

According to the National Tyre web-site, Michelin energy+ are graded A for wet grip compared to grade B for Avon VT7, and are also very slightly quieter, but certainly more expensive.  However, your real life experience is probably a better guide than lab tests, and there are other grades of Avon tyres. What are you using?

Avon ZV7,  but trust me I drove on Michelin for many years until about 2 years ago and travelled a lot of miles but I was well aware of the grip level available and know how the Avons behave in comparison.  Also Michelin ES and ES+ were the quietest tyres around for many years, but now they are pretty much all quiet.  Michelin have always been hard wearing, but even today with nano particle and high silca compounds they still have not managed to break the soft compound = high grip, harder compound = less grip rule completely, but certainly it has been bent a little, which is why you have dual compound motorcycle tyres with harder centre of tread but softer shoulders ( where you really need the grip). As I said I used to get new tyres every 18 months or less when I was working, even with Michelins, I don't know how long the softer Avons will last but I do a fraction of the miles I used to do, and for 5 or 6 months of the year the cars run on winter tyres anyway.  IIRC wear rating on the sidewall is lower for the Avons than the Michelins, which gives a rough guide of compound hardness ( I will check next time I go in garage but I think Avon wear rating is less than 300 where I think Michelin were more like 400).
« Last Edit: March 09, 2019, 04:01:00 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Tyre replacement
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2019, 04:30:01 PM »
According to the manufacturers sites some of the Michelin energy+ are rated B for wet grip, others are A. It depends on size, and it is not simply a case of the tyre width. Rim size has an influence as well.
The Avon ZV7's are all rated as A for wet grip, irrespective of width or rim size.
The Michelin energy+ tyres appear to have better dry grip than the Avon ZV7's but no ordinary motorist should ever get anywhere near the limit of grip of a tyre in the dry, so that doesn't really matter.
According to the numbers, Avons are a ba' hair noisier.

Downsizer

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Re: Tyre replacement
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2019, 05:28:54 PM »
It seems as though the Avon ZV7 is not available in 185/60R15 size suitable for the Mk 3 Jazz.  The ZT7 is available, but has B wet grip rating.  Ain't life complicated?  I'll stick to Michelin and hope they stick to the road!

Jocko

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Re: Tyre replacement
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2019, 06:18:30 PM »
According to Michelin the 185/60R15 are A rated in the wet.

https://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/michelin-energy-saver-plus

Hobo

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Re: Tyre replacement
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2019, 06:45:27 PM »
Many years ago when I used to run Saab 99 and 1000 turbo cars I had Avon's fitted on one of them, worse tyres I have ever had they were poor grip and above average wear they only last just over 10K, on advice from my local indy garage who I trust I have fitted Uniroyal Rainexpert on my last two Honda cars and on my present Civic Uniroyal Rainsport, good medium price tyre made by Continental and find them excellent for wear and also grip in wet weather
« Last Edit: March 09, 2019, 06:51:20 PM by Hobo »

culzean

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Re: Tyre replacement
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2019, 07:44:28 PM »
Many years ago when I used to run Saab 99 and 1000 turbo cars I had Avon's fitted on one of them, worse tyres I have ever had they were poor grip and above average wear they only last just over 10K, on advice from my local indy garage who I trust I have fitted Uniroyal Rainexpert on my last two Honda cars and on my present Civic Uniroyal Rainsport, good medium price tyre made by Continental and find them excellent for wear and also grip in wet weather

Funny that Avons were the best motorbike tyres many years ago, also Avon were taken over by Cooper tyres a few years ago and their range of tyres were completely overhauled in design and compounds. The grippiest tyres I had on a car were Pirelli Cinturato many years ago, but they were also the noisiest, they would hang on and then suddenly break away, without much if any warning. One thing Michelin have always been known for is long wear and below average grip - and their high cost.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Tyre replacement
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2019, 08:16:40 PM »
I replaced the original plastic Bridgestones, on my last bike (Honda), with Avon Roadriders and the increase in grip and confidence was enormous. But they wore out within a year. I then fitted Pirelli tyres and they were still on it when I stopped biking.

Twd99

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Re: Tyre replacement
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2019, 02:24:20 PM »
I had the front tyres replaced with the Dunlop Fast Response type.

After replacing the tyres, it affected the steering. For the car to drive straight, the steering wheel is at 12:10.

The tracking was spot on before the tyre replacement. When I spoke to the garages, they all said the tracking need doing. I told them not to even touch them.

I told them to swap the wheels between the front  as I suspected the tyre replacement process has swapped over the original location of the wheels.

I just wanted to share this experience, it does not necessarily the tracking is out. So my advice is to mark the wheels location when replacing the tyres and make sure they go on the same side/ location.

sparky Paul

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Re: Tyre replacement
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2019, 06:58:52 PM »
I had the front tyres replaced with the Dunlop Fast Response type.

After replacing the tyres, it affected the steering. For the car to drive straight, the steering wheel is at 12:10.

The tracking was spot on before the tyre replacement. When I spoke to the garages, they all said the tracking need doing. I told them not to even touch them.

I told them to swap the wheels between the front  as I suspected the tyre replacement process has swapped over the original location of the wheels.

I just wanted to share this experience, it does not necessarily the tracking is out. So my advice is to mark the wheels location when replacing the tyres and make sure they go on the same side/ location.

Not sure if it applies here, but occasionally going from symmetric to asymmetric tyres can show up small tracking errors masked by the old tyres.


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