Broken front wheel stud (again!), front drop links and other things.

[Boanerges]

Back in November 2014 I posted about my experiences replacing a sheared off wheel stud on my wife's 2005 Jazz and my slightly bodged way of doing it without removing the hub. Well, it's happened again - on the same hub (different stud).

This time the stud sheared off as I was slackening the wheel nuts prior to raising the car in order to fit new front anti-roll bar drop links adding further complication to what was (allegedly) a simple job. Are they ever?

I had to hacksaw the lower ball joint nuts off and then lever off the links so I could get a Mole wrench on the exposed balls as the Allen key holes in the bolts weren't up to the torque needed to undo the badly seized nuts. Once the links were off, replacing them couldn't have been easier. The replacement non-Honda links have 17mm flats so tightening them was simple.

The new wheel stud was made of much harder steel than the last one I bought so instead of simply filing a flat on the mushroom to allow refitting, I had to use an angle grinder.

What a difference the repairs have made to the way the car rides and handles. No more rattling and a more positive feeling to the steering. Now here's the odd bit. Maybe three years or so ago I started to be aware of a groaning noise from the transmission as the revs rose which I put down to the infamous gearbox bearing. A temporary cure involved turning the radio up and ignoring it but it was becoming really noticeable.

After the drop link repair, the groaning noise has gone and fingers crossed that it's not temporary. But what have I done that could have effected a 'cure'? I used a trolley jack under the gearbox to lift the car onto the axle stands; could that be it? Or by having the car nose high for a day, did gearbox oil flow to the noisy bearing? Were the drop links somehow involved?

Regarding another problem, after repeated failures I gave up trying to cure water ingress into the boot and in frustration simply drilled a hole through the boot floor to let it drain out. Another bodge on my part but even after last week's downpours the boot is dry.

[JohnAlways]

Hi
Quote: "I used a trolley jack under the gearbox to lift the car onto the axle stands". Is that approved?

I wouldn't dream or even think of putting a trolley jack under the gearbox to put a car on stands but maybe it's just me losing touch? (I was thinking about the strain on gearbox / engine mountings). I know it's a pain jacking either side to get onto stands but this seems brutal 

[Jocko]

Gearbox is cast alloy. Brittle and easily smashed. I'd be worried the jack went straight through it!

[culzean]

Hi
Quote: "I used a trolley jack under the gearbox to lift the car onto the axle stands". Is that approved?

I wouldn't dream or even think of putting a trolley jack under the gearbox to put a car on stands but maybe it's just me losing touch? (I was thinking about the strain on gearbox / engine mountings). I know it's a pain jacking either side to get onto stands but this seems brutal 

+10

IMHO lifting the car by the gearbox is just plain wrong,  you are lifting the car by the engine mounts and putting a force on them they don't normally see,  also putting localised force on an aluminium casing can end in tears if it cracks (either at the time or later).

[guest1372]

Congrats on competing what can be an awkward job, it seems all drop link replacements seem to involve cutting off bolts. 

I'd second the 'jacking the gearbox' concerns.  If you put a small piece of wood on the trolley jack cup (or an ice hockey puck), then you can place it under the box section bracing that is just further inboard than the sill jack points, which is where the stands can then go.  On the back, I sometimes lift from under the bottom of the spring, seeing as that is also designed to take the weight of the car.
--
TG

[Boanerges]

I did of course put pieces of wood between jack and alloy casting and between axle stands and underside of car body but instead of rushing to condemn my methodology, wouldn't it have been more constructive to have at least tried to answer my query as to how this repair has apparently cured a very noisy gearbox? Why else would I have openly admitted to what I knew would attract criticism on an enthusiasts' forum?

The car has now done 60 miles or so since the repair and the loud whine that used to start up shortly after moving off has now completely disappeared.

Was it replacing the drop links or using the underside of the gearbox as a jacking point that got rid of the transmission noise? I have always understood that the Mk 1 Jazz is prone to gearbox noise due to a faulty bearing but if this the case, how could it have been corrected by putting stress on the transmission and engine/gearbox mountings?

Thanks to TG for his encouraging comment

[guest1372]

I don't think the gearbox has much space for the oil to slosh about in, judging by it's shape it follows the outline of the gears fairly closely.  The lower gearing is immersed in oil, so should throw it up and about anyway.  Tilting the car won't have made much difference compared to usual driving G forces that would "refresh the parts other (oils) can't reach" *.  Maybe the output shaft seals had a nudge while the suspension was hanging?  You're right about the input shaft bearing issues, but here it is unlikely to have been affected.

Not sure why the wheel studs are breaking - torque on the 12mm nuts is 108Nm which is a strong full shouldered push on the standard wrench.  If the nut is binding to the thread there might be a problem, but it's probably not wise to grease wheel nut threads - maybe just one drip of oil.  If the wheel balancing was out, then possibly vibration could cause fatigue in the studs. 

Edit:  On further reflection I doubt that as the wheel is centred on the hub and the studs are not carrying wheel loadings unless they are aftermarket alloys with a larger centre bore that is missing it's adaptor rings.
--
TG

* Apologies to Heineken

[Jocko]

Not sure why the wheel studs are breaking - torque on the 12mm nuts is 108Nm which is a strong full shouldered push on the standard wrench.

Perhaps they have been torqued up to an excessive force, sometime in the past, and this has weakened/stretched them. I had a Kwik Fit fitter tighten up my FIAT studs with a power gun and one sheared. It turned out the thing was set for too high a torque. They had a struggle getting it out and I insisted they get me 4 new bolts from the local FIAT dealer (which they were happy to do).

[culzean]

Not sure why the wheel studs are breaking - torque on the 12mm nuts is 108Nm which is a strong full shouldered push on the standard wrench.

Perhaps they have been torqued up to an excessive force, sometime in the past, and this has weakened/stretched them. I had a Kwik Fit fitter tighten up my FIAT studs with a power gun and one sheared. It turned out the thing was set for too high a torque. They had a struggle getting it out and I insisted they get me 4 new bolts from the local FIAT dealer (which they were happy to do).

If anyone has one of those telescopic wheel wrenches - the short length (about 350mm) is for tightening and the long length (about 550mm) for unscrewing the nuts if they are a bit tight.    If you use short length to tighten the average person will not over-torque the nuts.