The infamous EGR valve problem (Honda Jazz 2002-2008)

[guest2019]

When the EGR valve faulty the jerky running comes up at any gear when you hold the accelerator pedal around 2000 rpm, does not matter what gear you are in. In your case probably something else the problem.
Have you changed the gearbox oil to the new recommended one?

Honda released a Worldwide product update (PDU) that informed all dealers, and service depots to use only Honda CVT-F (Honda part number (4 litres) 0826099904HE) in all CVT transmissions in Insight, Civic IMA, HRV, and JAZZ.[/guote]

More info here: http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=94.0

I doubt its CVT oil problem.. since i change it every 15,XXX km... since that got rid of that vibration issue when u accelerate off the spot.

Just the RPM just drops to 1500rpm no matter what speed you travel flat is giving annoying me.

[culzean]

Well, yes I thought the same, carb cleaner and a good cleaning. Anyway I always disconnect the battery first before I remove any electrical component of the car (just in case).

No need to disconnect the battery when you unplug something, the fact that it has a plug and socket on it means that it is meant to be disconnected, and can't short out to anything because contact pins are surrounded by insulation.  

Disconnecting the battery except when it is absolutely unavoidable (ie. when you fit a new one) can cause other major problems if you read other posts on this forum...........

[DV]

jonno86

He had a similar problem and solved it: http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=1909.0

I have owned 2 Jazz's in my time: originally a CVT 1.4SE and more recently a 2003 manual one purchased from a friend.

Over the past 12 months or so we have had a worsening problem with erratic throttle at low revs. The symptoms seem to appear once the car has warmed up and when using very low revs e.g. manoeuvring in a car park. Despite the throttle position the revs would bounce around resulting in kangarooing. The other way to show it up would be to hold the car still on a hill just using the throttle and the clutch and you could see the revs fluctuating randomly by 500-800 rpm.

The car has been seen at a Honda dealer, twice at a general independent and once at a independent Honda specialist. The dealer said it was the EGR valve which was replaced with no real improvement; the independent said it was a sticking throttle which might have made a temporary improvement and the Honda independent said it was the spark plugs but "they are all a bit rough at low revs".

Since we are trying to teach our kids to drive in the car I was not happy and was going to resort to selling the car. However, I tried a few things and seem to have solved it:

1. Temporarily blanked off the EGR valve as suggested in this thread: http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=5345.0 in case the replacement was faulty. No improvement (but drove about 20 miles with it like that and triggered the emissions warning light which fortunately reset itself after a week or so...).
2. Purchased a 2nd hand throttle body from a breaker for £60 (note that if doing this you need to ensure you get the correct version - mine has ECTS but the first one I bought had a traditional throttle (fortunately they refunded me without a problem). This didn't appear to have any effect either.
3. As a last resort I thought I would disconnect the battery to reset the ECM having read this thread: http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=1366.0 and then used the directions to "retrain" the ECM. Bingo - the problem seems to be solved!

I have no idea if just retraining the ECM, without having changed the throttle body, would have cured the problem but I thought I would post this in the hope that it might help someone else with the same problem.

Nick

culzean

So far I had no problem after disconnecting the battery but it happened once a year (or less) only.

[guest2019]

jonno86

He had a similar problem and solved it: http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=1909.0

I have owned 2 Jazz's in my time: originally a CVT 1.4SE and more recently a 2003 manual one purchased from a friend.

Over the past 12 months or so we have had a worsening problem with erratic throttle at low revs. The symptoms seem to appear once the car has warmed up and when using very low revs e.g. manoeuvring in a car park. Despite the throttle position the revs would bounce around resulting in kangarooing. The other way to show it up would be to hold the car still on a hill just using the throttle and the clutch and you could see the revs fluctuating randomly by 500-800 rpm.

The car has been seen at a Honda dealer, twice at a general independent and once at a independent Honda specialist. The dealer said it was the EGR valve which was replaced with no real improvement; the independent said it was a sticking throttle which might have made a temporary improvement and the Honda independent said it was the spark plugs but "they are all a bit rough at low revs".

Since we are trying to teach our kids to drive in the car I was not happy and was going to resort to selling the car. However, I tried a few things and seem to have solved it:

1. Temporarily blanked off the EGR valve as suggested in this thread: http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=5345.0 in case the replacement was faulty. No improvement (but drove about 20 miles with it like that and triggered the emissions warning light which fortunately reset itself after a week or so...).
2. Purchased a 2nd hand throttle body from a breaker for £60 (note that if doing this you need to ensure you get the correct version - mine has ECTS but the first one I bought had a traditional throttle (fortunately they refunded me without a problem). This didn't appear to have any effect either.
3. As a last resort I thought I would disconnect the battery to reset the ECM having read this thread: http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=1366.0 and then used the directions to "retrain" the ECM. Bingo - the problem seems to be solved!

I have no idea if just retraining the ECM, without having changed the throttle body, would have cured the problem but I thought I would post this in the hope that it might help someone else with the same problem.

Nick

culzean

So far I had no problem after disconnecting the battery but it happened once a year (or less) only.

Hi Culzean,

I'll give the ECM a try tomorrow. Cheers.

[DV]

This week Thursday morning I had the amber colour light came up on my dashboard. I managed to read the fault code: P1491. I made a Google search and it seems my EGR valve faulty, P1491 EGR Valve Lift Insufficient Detected.
Won`t be cheap to buy a new one...
In the last 2 years I regularly cleaned it with carb cleaner so I think this is the end of the life of the EGR valve.

mod: I found 2 used ones, £84.00+ post £7.20 (120 days warranty @Xcess Access Ltd) and £102.00+ post £12.00 (@Dewsbury Auto Salvage), now I`m going to check the price of the new one at Honda.

mod2: the new is £215.81+VAT @ Johnsons Honda
The same genuine (through Honda) new from Eurocarparts is £273+VAT !

mod3: Uploading some pics about the new EGR valve, arrived today.
pic1: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18635761/EGR/CIMG3267.JPG
pic2: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18635761/EGR/CIMG3268.JPG
pic3: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18635761/EGR/CIMG3270.JPG
pic4: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18635761/EGR/CIMG3271.JPG
pic5: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18635761/EGR/CIMG3236.JPG.

[guest2165]

Hello to all advisors for the infamous EGR valve problem, I will try the clean out for my suspect valve and see how that goes, I will take the precaution of getting a new gasket from Honda first. I have been looking at various sources for a replacement in case the clean doesn't work, but I am a little dubious about using a secondhand one given that these things seem quite prone to faulting. Honda's price for a new one is a little eye-watering (quoted £258 inc VAT) from my local dealer , but I am going to Canada and the USA in a few weeks, and it occurs to me that the price for a new valve might be a lot more reasonable from a Honda dealer over there. The 10,000 dollar question is - do any of you advisors out there know if this particular valve is common across a range of Honda engines? I.E. Jazz, Civic, etc. My Jazz (GD series) is a 1.2i-DSi, 2005/05, with the L12A series engine. I know that the Jazz is called the Fit over the other side of the pond, but they appear to use larger engines in them, as do the Aussies (probably Civics?) Also, can anyone tell me the correct Honda stock number for this valve?
Regards, warrior193.   

[guest2165]

Blast!, another terrific idea shot down in flames Oh well, mustn't cry. I guess if the carb cleaner doesn't work I will just have to try a used one - wonder what the odds are on getting a good one Does anyone out there have a favoured supplier? So far I have had responses from A1 Jap; Dewsbury Auto; Hygrade Motor and Xcess Access.
Regards, warrior 

[guest2209]

My 2002 Jazz started suffering from this about a month ago with kicking at about 2000 RPM.
First, THANKS for everyone that contributed to this posting, I indeed suffered from the bad EGR valve problem and it is now fixed.
I ended up doing a search for the part number in DV's post, HONDA Part Number 18011-PWA-050 and found a shop in the USA that would ship to Cyprus. dealerpartsdirect(dot)com They take PayPal and can ship anywhere. So for about $157 plus shipping and taxes I got the part. It says it is for a 2006 Civic Hybrid but I figured it was worth a try since it would have cost Euro 330 +vat here at the local Honda shop. So for about Euro 160 and 5 minutes of my time I got the Jazz running like new.

Happy Driving

[guest2242]

My 52 plate, ~68k Jazz has been suffering with this hesitancy problem for a while now, thought it was probably the coil packs (£90 EACH  ) until I found this thread. I've just finished cleaning it with some carb cleaner and touch wood it seems a lot better, hopefully this will ward off a new one for a while.

I did some research and it seems that the same EGR valve is used on the 03-05 and 06-11 Civic Hybrid, this was sold in the US and (surprise surprise) the part is a lot cheaper there, so this might be a good option if you do need to buy a new one.

For anyone who does have a go at cleaning their EGR valve the bit you need to work on is the round bit highlighted here:



Use a pair of needle nosed pliers to pull the round part in the recess up (be gentle with it) and spray some carb cleaner in to clean it up. This is the part that needs to move freely.

It's probably worth getting a new gasket in before tackling this as it is almost guaranteed that it'll get ruined when you take it off.

[guest1552]

Interesting reading about the EGR problems, my 06 model has started to play up, my local dealer JT Hughes Shrewsbury wants £219 for the valve, I dont get how they can just make up any price they like. This isnt the first time they have wanted silly money for parts, I just shelled out £50 for a front suspension drop link from them, does that sound about right??

[guest1761]

I just wanted to say thank you to all on here for the help regarding the EGR valve.
I've fixed my valve with a little bit of paraffin and some tlc.
Car now runs like new and it sailed its MOT yesterday, no advisories.
What a great little motor...

[guest2733]

Hello all,
Thanks to previous posters who have helped me identify this bunny hopping problem on my 2003 v low milage jazz.
I cleaned the valve with petrol but it didn't help. The valve stem moves freely and didn't look particularly dirty. I wanted to be sure of the problem so next I made a blanking gasket (I used a piece of lakeland plastics silcone baking tray liner - good to 260 degC £5.49 ).
Since I put the blanking gasket in place the problem has gone but now I am getting the "malfunction" indicator light on the dash according to the manual I have an emmissions problem.
My question - what is the problem with leaving it like this, will it cause damage?

Thanks in advance of any advice

[DV]

EGR Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas_recirculation,
EGR other: http://autorepair.about.com/od/glossary/gr/def_egr-valve.htm.

[guest2733]

Many thanks DV for the information. I see how and why the valve works. Perhaps my question should have been:

How long can I get away with this without causing more problems or damage?
I would like to make a 250 mile trip later this week. Is this going to damage anything or do I need to get hold of the valve first or hire a car?. It seems to run great at the moment but I only dare use it on short runs in case I cause a bigger problem.

Thanks

[guest1552]

I have been looking around for a replacement EGR but it seems like second hand or main dealer part. However there is  nice guy at CES exhaust systems who informed me there is a specific EGR cleaner that has just come to market which is better suited to clearing carbon deposits than carb cleaner. They have it at £4.95 + VAT for a tin so I will let you know how i get on...