Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - 2020 => Topic started by: monkeydave on April 27, 2019, 12:22:45 PM
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is it just the 1.5 jazz engine that has a problem with oil dilution or the 1.3 as well
i cant even find if the 1.3 is a direct injected engine or multi point port injection
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If that's the issue mentioned here https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=11071.0 then I wouldn't lose any sleep about it. There needs to be extreme cold to cause sufficient fuel to not evaporate to cause this problem. UK winters are relatively mild.
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If that's the issue mentioned here https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=11071.0 then I wouldn't lose any sleep about it. There needs to be extreme cold to cause sufficient fuel to not evaporate to cause this problem. UK winters are relatively mild.
yeah it was the fit 1.5 in the us that were having the problem
so the 1.3 is a direct injection engine as well as the 1.5 ?
thanks
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so the 1.3 is a direct injection engine as well as the 1.5 ?
It says fuel injection here https://www.car.info/en-se/honda/jazz/jazz-13-i-vtec-7897964/specs (https://www.car.info/en-se/honda/jazz/jazz-13-i-vtec-7897964/specs) but doesn't say which type of injection. Both the 1.3 and 1.5 engines have the same bore but different strokes. I would have expected the engines to have the maximum number of common parts in order to simplify manufacturing and inventory.
We know that the Honda engines don't need their oil topping up between services but neither have there been any reports in UK of the oil level increasing.
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From my research it appears that the Jazz, from 2015 update, has direct injection in all models. I am willing to stand corrected as information is not easily found!
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From my research it appears that the Jazz, from 2015 update, has direct injection in all models. I am willing to stand corrected as information is not easily found!
I would think so, most petrols are going that way these days.
I hope they have managed to do something about the high pressure pump failures which plagued the early attempts at direct petrol injection in the 1990s.
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For Gdi engines only.
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is it just the 1.5 jazz engine that has a problem with oil dilution or the 1.3 as well
If that's the issue mentioned here https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=11071.0 then I wouldn't lose any sleep about it. There needs to be extreme cold to cause sufficient fuel to not evaporate to cause this problem. UK winters are relatively mild.
The link posted by John Ratsey (and the onward link in that post) refers specifically to 1.5 turbo engines. AFAIK, the 1.5 in the UK-spec Jazz is normally-aspirated, therefore oil-dilution in extreme cold is not applicable to that car. To put it another way: don't worry about it.
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From US Fit freak Forum :
Scotty Kilmer is a dipstick. His YouTube video blamed the problem on Honda's EarthDreams Direct Injection engine. He doesn't seem to be aware that the problem is with Honda's EarthDreams DI TURBO engine. That turbo engine is in the Civic and the CR-V and is causing all kinds of oil dilution problems in these vehicles in North America and especially China. There is no problem with the EarthDreams DI non-turbo engine as used in the Fit.
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From my research it appears that the Jazz, from 2015 update, has direct injection in all models. I am willing to stand corrected as information is not easily found!
I would think so, most petrols are going that way these days.
I hope they have managed to do something about the high pressure pump failures which plagued the early attempts at direct petrol injection in the 1990s.
No, no doubt that my 2017 1.3 has indirect injection, and the 1.5 has direct injection. You also can check it in Honda News website.
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From my research it appears that the Jazz, from 2015 update, has direct injection in all models. I am willing to stand corrected as information is not easily found!
I would think so, most petrols are going that way these days.
I hope they have managed to do something about the high pressure pump failures which plagued the early attempts at direct petrol injection in the 1990s.
No, no doubt that my 2017 1.3 has indirect injection, and the 1.5 has direct injection. You also can check it in Honda News website.
This site says 2015 1.3 model still had multi point indirect injection but 2017 facelift got direct injection.
https://www.auto-data.net/en/honda-jazz-iii-facelift-2017-1.3-i-vtec-102hp-32643
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That is what I meant by information is not easily found.
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https://hondanews.eu/gb/en/cars/media/pressreleases/125475/2018-honda-jazz-15-i-vtec
They talk about the 1.5 direct injection, but nothing about the 1.3 who appears unchanged, consumption data apart (but there's been the change from NEDC to WLTP).
Moving from indirect to direct fuel injection is not so easy, it means a deep change in an engine head. Honda knows how to do it, but I think they would have enlighted this major change. So, in my opinion, autodata is making a mistake.
Anyway, oil diluition is quite a common issue in GDI engines; in Europe it becomes an important problem, leading to early oil change, only in very cold weather and short trips: the gasoline dropped in the oil pan evaporates as the oil temperature rise, so usually european gdi engines work fine.
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Wikipedia has a section on Honda advanced technology, including this quote under the Earth Dreams sub-heading for 1.3 to 1.5 litre engines: "Employs VTC, direct injection technology and the Atkinson cycle using the DOHC, VTEC technologies as the base. Extensive friction reduction measures have been implemented."
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Wikipedia has a section on Honda advanced technology, including this quote under the Earth Dreams sub-heading for 1.3 to 1.5 litre engines: "Employs VTC, direct injection technology and the Atkinson cycle using the DOHC, VTEC technologies as the base. Extensive friction reduction measures have been implemented."
Yes, but not together on both engines.
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Wikipedia has a section on Honda advanced technology, including this quote under the Earth Dreams sub-heading for 1.3 to 1.5 litre engines: "Employs VTC, direct injection technology and the Atkinson cycle using the DOHC, VTEC technologies as the base. Extensive friction reduction measures have been implemented."
Yes, but not together on both engines.
You just need to find out where the injectors are on your engine, if they are in the manifold it is normal port injection but if they are in the centre of combustion chamber with a solid ( high pressure ) pipe linking them then it will be direct injection, if direct injection the engine will have a high pressure engine driven pump and also probably an engine driven vacuum pump to ensure brakes work when manifold vacuum is low.
https://www.counterman.com/gasoline-direct-injection-vs-port-fuel-injection/
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Look like this in Honda fit/jazz earthdreams engine..my friend got this car and yes the oil smells gas...my old one also smells gas but not that terrible as the new model..(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190503/015ca1a28f597b8de74fa46d771b6177.jpg)
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You just need to find out where the injectors are on your engine, if they are in the manifold it is normal port injection but if they are in the centre of combustion chamber with a solid ( high pressure ) pipe linking them then it will be direct injection, if direct injection the engine will have a high pressure engine driven pump and also probably an engine driven vacuum pump to ensure brakes work when manifold vacuum is low.
Sure.
1.3 engine has port fuel injection but it works as Atkinson cycle (LIVC, late intake valve closure), so there is a vacuum pump (driven by a camshaft) for brake vacuum assistance.
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I've just found a site called www.auto-date.net that shows the 1.3 engine changing from multi-point indirect injection to direct injection in the 2017 facelift, not sure if it's correct ?
https://www.auto-data.net/en/honda-jazz-iii-1.3-i-vtec-102hp-22475
https://www.auto-data.net/en/honda-jazz-iii-facelift-2017-1.3-i-vtec-102hp-32643
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I've just found a site called www.auto-date.net that shows the 1.3 engine changing from multi-point indirect injection to direct injection in the 2017 facelift, not sure if it's correct ?
https://www.auto-data.net/en/honda-jazz-iii-1.3-i-vtec-102hp-22475
https://www.auto-data.net/en/honda-jazz-iii-facelift-2017-1.3-i-vtec-102hp-32643
Incorrect infos.
The GK3 1.3 has definetly port injection, pre and post facelift.
Even in the JDM Mk4 (not imported in Europe) there is still a port injection system.
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The Scotty Kilmer video is worth your attention.
Note the reference to the Toyota dual injection system, indirect and direct injection on the same engine.
Toyota employ both conventional indirect injection into the inlet manifold where the fuel sprays the inlet valves washing them clean of carbon buildup, , and also direct injection into the cylinder for power and economy.
The ECU must be switching to and from indirect to direct injection to suit the driving conditions of the car, the system of Toyota gives the benefit of , indirect to clean the inlets, direct for economy.
Do Honda use a dual system? I am suspecting not.
Note oil dilution, the engine needs work , driving with the engine oil at full working temperature , to burn off the petrol in the oil, Americans are notorious for short trips in their cars, 250 yards to the shop, Walk? No I'll take the car. Is this the cold oil diluting condition Honda refers to?
The software fix, what are the details?
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I asked whether the 1.3 was direct injection some time ago and the replies were as follows :
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=12119.msg83508#msg83508
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https://hondanews.eu/gb/en/cars/media/pressreleases/125475/2018-honda-jazz-15-i-vtec
They talk about the 1.5 direct injection, but nothing about the 1.3 who appears unchanged, consumption data apart (but there's been the change from NEDC to WLTP).
Moving from indirect to direct fuel injection is not so easy, it means a deep change in an engine head. Honda knows how to do it, but I think they would have enlighted this major change. So, in my opinion, autodata is making a mistake.
Anyway, oil diluition is quite a common issue in GDI engines; in Europe it becomes an important problem, leading to early oil change, only in very cold weather and short trips: the gasoline dropped in the oil pan evaporates as the oil temperature rise, so usually european gdi engines work fine.
The issues seem small compared to Land Rover, certain models with Ingenium diesel engines suffered such terrible engine oil dilution by diesel fuel , the engines were ruined before the first oil change from new after only 20,00 miles of use