Hydrogen Yaris

[Kremmen]

Toyota experimenting :

https://mag.toyota.co.uk/hydrogen-gr-yaris-showcases-experimental-engine/?fbclid=IwAR2LN3ttfRS0dhHHoI6FIUc6Ss7iww8udvRB3G7nHOQ_pRlL2oecdct7Dd0

[Johncb500]

I tend to agree with Toyota,

Hydrogen fuel cells are the way to go,
At best, EV are only suitable for shorter periods, no good for heavy haulage etc,

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[trebor1652]

I also have seen that JCB are working in the same direction.

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[JimSh]

I think the Hydrogen powered JCBs are ICE which surprised me.
I would have thought that fuel cells would be more efficient but maybe there are technical  reasons why ICE engines are preferred for diggers or maybe its easier to just to adapt from diesel.
https://www.jcb.com/en-gb/campaigns/hydrogen

Switzerland is developing fuel cell technology for HGVs with longer range than electric lorries.
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/sci-tech/switzerland-s-driving-role-in-the-green-hydrogen-revolution/46079974#:~:text=The%20green%20fuel%20produced%20in%20Switzerland%20will%20primarily,energy%20%28and%20water%29%20by%20combining%20hydrogen%20with%20oxygen.

[MartinJG]

Johnson Matthey, after having invested a tidy sum on battery technological development, have decided to sell up and walk away from this sector which they consider to be a crowded and potentially unprofitable market for them based on costs etc. They will be concentrating on further development of hydrogen technology where they already have considerable expertise. They clearly feel this is the future for them.

[Neil Ives]

Hydrogen sounds like the best solution for vehicle energy, etc., if the cost of producing it can be reduced.

[richardfrost]

I think the Hydrogen powered JCBs are ICE which surprised me.

The Toyota Yaris one is ICE too. Have a read of the article on the link provided in the OP. It's a very interesting concept. Of course the drawback is where the hydrogen comes from.

[JimSh]

That surprises me too.
I would have thought fuel cells were the way to go especially when they have experience of fuel cell technology.
I can remember seeing a  Horizon video from the 1970s (http://bufvc.ac.uk/dvdfind/index.php/title/10110)
about Roger Billings converting a lawn mower then a  car to run on Hydrogen. (Modifying ICE petrol engines)(I see from the linked article he actually did it in 1966).
He also ran a small community with  hydrogen for cooking and heating.
https://www.rogerebillings.com/hydrogen/
I see he's still there.
https://currentsciencedaily.com/stories/566535003-inventor-roger-billings-reveals-plan-for-hydrogen-car-with-fuel-cell

[embee]

You can run an ICE (engine) on pretty much anything which will burn, even coal dust with the right design.
With hydrogen it seems a little illogical to go to the lengths of an ICE when you could use a fuel cell and cut out all the hot nonsense and inefficiency of a thermodynamic cycle. I suppose the technicalities and practical issues of a commercial fuel cell right now might decide in favour of a proven relatively cheap technology like an ICE.

External combustion engines tend to be very inefficient but are fuel flexible (Sterling engines, steam etc).

You then have to ask the question "what is the problem you are trying to fix?". If it is air quality in cities, then a hydrogen ICE is probably a decent solution. I have no idea what the NOx emissions from a H2 ICE would be like, depends on max temps/pressures, I have no experience of H2 engines.
If it sustainability/convenience etc then perhaps not quite so clear cut.

These things tend to progress as "needs must". The supply of the fuel is fundamental however.

[richardfrost]

You then have to ask the question "what is the problem you are trying to fix?". If it is air quality in cities, then a hydrogen ICE is probably a decent solution.

I think Toyota are looking at these issues and claim, in the article, that there are no emissions. They are also stating the enjoyment of the sound of an engine is a large part of the joy of a hydrogen ICE rather than a fuel cell or battery power source.

I suppose a hydrogen ICE would make a relatively easy migration path to fuel cell technology, as it would share the same need for infrastructure as a fuel cell would, namely production, storage and refuelling facilities.

[Whiteshark]

Toyota have realised that if they go the electric, or the fuel cell route, they have an army of suppliers producing components for their ice’s who will all be made redundant. If they can make an ice that runs on hydrogen , and you are right JCB have one, it makes far for sense for them.
The other point everybody is missing, is not the producing of hydrogen, that all comes down to cost at the end of the day, blue or green. However I am reliably informed that it is its distribution to the end user that is the problem. There appear to be many costly complexities to overcome, but I am sure if that is the ultimate route chosen they will have to sort it.

[DERMOT]

Artic!e on h2ice jcb https://www.fwi.co.uk/machinery/technology/jcbs-hydrogen-fuelled-combustion-engine-examined

Jo Bamford has his own h2 fuel cell based company, a h2 generation and distribution partnership ( based in Australia using solar to create green h2, and he bought wrightbus (maker of the new heatherwick/ Boris route master)
Wrightbus had been trying to develop battery electric bus using in house tech.  The UK competitor Alex Denis opted for BYD rolling chassis, and with BYDs might and battery supply seemed to have won. Downside is that UK has lost chance of domestic bev heavy vehicles .
So hydrogen both ice and fuel cell may be key to UK mfgr survival.
Bamford has switched Wrightbus to h2 fuel cell, and local uni changed its electric bev lab to follow h2 fcell.

[Kremmen]

AFAIK there are quite a few hydrogen buses running around.

Sounds like it just needs to be stepped up ?