Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums

Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk4 2020 - => Topic started by: trebor1652 on August 16, 2019, 09:54:01 PM

Title: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: trebor1652 on August 16, 2019, 09:54:01 PM
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/hybrid-honda-jazz-confirmed-2020

Thought you all should see this.
Interesting article.

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Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: John Ratsey on August 17, 2019, 07:41:30 AM
If they mean 2020 manufacturing year then we might see some demonstrators at dealers by the end of this year to get people signing up for delivery when the new 2020 registrations are available. This would fit with the info that the new model would be unveiled this autumn except, for a change, Europe would be near the front of the queue for the new model.
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: Jocko on August 17, 2019, 08:57:14 AM
See Vic's post from yesterday.

https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=11411.msg74671#msg74671 (https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=11411.msg74671#msg74671)

Article dated 15th August.
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: jazzaro on October 16, 2019, 04:54:59 PM
Next wednesday.
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: monkeydave on October 16, 2019, 05:31:13 PM
dont like the front end much
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: JazzandJag on October 17, 2019, 10:23:34 AM
Preview image just published....

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-tokyo-motor-show/hybrid-only-honda-jazz-previewed-ahead-tokyo-reveal
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: Jocko on October 17, 2019, 11:13:58 AM
Not much of an image!
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: guest4871 on October 17, 2019, 11:41:05 AM
"Honda UK sales boss Phil Webb said the maker will launch a campaign to help educate on the hybrid Jazz given the older age of many of its loyal customers."

That's a tad patronising!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: Downsizer on October 17, 2019, 12:21:59 PM
"Honda UK sales boss Phil Webb said the maker will launch a campaign to help educate on the hybrid Jazz given the older age of many of its loyal customers."

That's a tad patronising!!!!!!!!!!!
I suspect that older drivers have a better understanding of the engineering than young ones, given that we were brought up on cars which needed frequent under-the-bonnet attention!
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: trebor1652 on October 17, 2019, 12:37:53 PM
Hence
FORD
Fix Or Repair Daily
or
FIAT
Fix It Again Tomorrow


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Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: ColinB on October 17, 2019, 03:16:24 PM
"Honda UK sales boss Phil Webb said the maker will launch a campaign to help educate on the hybrid Jazz given the older age of many of its loyal customers."

That's a tad patronising!!!!!!!!!!!
The impending MK4 seems to be attracting a rash of stupid/patronising comments. Try this:
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/lock-your-grandma-new-honda-jazz-coming
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: madasafish on October 17, 2019, 03:20:53 PM
About 8 years behind Toyota then..
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: Jocko on October 17, 2019, 03:44:23 PM
Ollie Kew is obviously a kn*bhe@d.
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: csp on October 17, 2019, 05:26:09 PM
Typical rubbish comments from Top Gear idiots who probably have never driven or sat in a Jazz. Top Gear on BBC was very good before Jeremy Clarkson started on the show and ruined it with his stupid comments. I wouldn't even read Top Gear Magazine if it were free, it's for sports car and super car enthusiasts. There are much better magazines available.

I expect the journalist who read the press release and added his stupid comments to be published  in Top Gear has never serviced a car, stripped down an engine and as less experience / knowledge of automotive engineering than many Jazz owners.

Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: trebor1652 on October 17, 2019, 05:36:29 PM
Well said, csp.


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Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: trebor1652 on October 21, 2019, 05:40:28 PM
https://www-carscoops-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.carscoops.com/2019/10/new-honda-jazz-fit-makes-early-appearance-ahead-of-tokyo-debut/amp/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCKAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.carscoops.com%2F2019%2F10%2Fnew-honda-jazz-fit-makes-early-appearance-ahead-of-tokyo-debut%2F

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Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: John Ratsey on October 21, 2019, 06:04:03 PM
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-tokyo-motor-show/hybrid-only-honda-jazz-previewed-ahead-tokyo-reveal
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: jonathan on October 22, 2019, 03:31:48 PM
See link
".https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-tokyo-motor-show/hybrid-only-honda-jazz-revealed-leaked-image-ahead-tokyo"


It looks very similar to the front of the Toyota Yaris Verso (2000 - 2005).

The design getting plain....
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: JazzandJag on October 23, 2019, 08:10:45 AM
These look like real pictures!

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/honda/jazz/106441/new-2020-honda-jazz-revealed-in-tokyo-pictures
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: Jocko on October 23, 2019, 08:17:34 AM
Looks great. Magic seats and all.
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: monkeydave on October 23, 2019, 12:40:10 PM
looks good but maybe a bit cheaper build to fit in the cost of the hybrid system

it looks like it will have three trim levels s, se & ex, the s prob start at 18k, se at 20k and ex at 22k as the toyota yaris hybrid starts at 18.9k

OH NO electronic hand brake, prob push button start too

i like the exterior (especially the front) more than the interior with the two spoke wheel

Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: John Ratsey on October 23, 2019, 02:50:22 PM
OH NO electronic hand brake, prob push button start too
I've had the electronic parking brake on my HR-V and, so far, there have been no problems with this (nor any reported in the HR-V forums).

Personally, I'd be interested to try the Crosstar because of the additional ride height, described here https://uk.motor1.com/news/377927/honda-fit-debuts-five-trim-levels/ (https://uk.motor1.com/news/377927/honda-fit-debuts-five-trim-levels/) as:
Another addition to the Jazz range is the new ‘Crosstar’ variant, designed to appeal to those seeking a more crossover style design. Available with the same hybrid powertrain and interior features as the standard model, the new Crosstar features increased ride height, a unique front grille design, water-resistant upholstery and integrated roof rails.

If that's offered here (as suggested by the Honda Europe press release) then it might suggest that the next-generation HR-V won't be coming here. I would be wanting to see if the dashboard reflections on windscreen problems I've had with the Jazzes are an issue with this vehicle - I've had no problem with the HR-V.
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: jazzaro on October 24, 2019, 10:52:51 AM
I watched some pics and some videos and I found some interesting details..
1- No more touch buttons for climate, and finally a knob for adjusting volume
2- rear wiper at the center and 180° wipe, non more 90° wipe for right hand drive.
3- A pillar looks thinner, it means better front visibility
4- completely digital instrument panel, I hope they will keep the rpm meter: a Vtec MUST HAVE it.
5- fuel tank will remain under the front seats, and lithium battery will go under the trunk floor, where there is a little step just in the middle.
6- finally Jazz will have better headlights, halogen or led will be Bi-function.
7- finally they removed edges from bumpers, it means less scratches and damages in city usage.
8- seats are different, but the frame looks like the same of the present Jazz. To be hones, a lot of parts looks the same of the present Jazz
9- 4 disk brakes even in the hybrid
10- there is a cup holder in both sides, just in front of air vents. These looks bigger, so air flow could be less annoyng.
11- japanese specs talks about improved ADAS, as  adaptive cruise control, active lane assist, better cam for pedestrians ad cyclist detection.

I'm looking foward to read technical specs and accessories and, obviously, prices.
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: Jocko on October 24, 2019, 11:13:09 AM
Does the current hybrid not have discs all round?
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: jazzaro on October 24, 2019, 01:52:30 PM
Current Hybrid is sold only in Japan, I think it has 4 disk brakes.
I noted this because many european segment B moved from discs to drums for rear brakes, and I'm happy that Honda keeps discs in cars even with regenerative braking.
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: Jocko on October 24, 2019, 02:24:55 PM
Hybrids have been sold in the UK. At present Auto Trader are listing 17 for sale.
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: culzean on October 24, 2019, 02:54:18 PM
So it has a completely digital instrument panel - hope they have seen fit to include a temperature gauge to replace that silly blue light ?   The 8th gen Civic ( 2006 to 2011 ) is a masterclass in good dash design - nice high level digital speedo just at bottom edge of windscreen so you don't really have to look down,  everything within easy reach,  proper big buttons and knobs and a rotary switch for the headlight load adjustment ( not an impossible to see tiny slide switch down by your right knee like in MK1 and 2 Jazz ).   

Don't know why people hanker after rear discs though,  they are more trouble that they are worth - there is a good reason B segment cars in Europe have changed back to drums,  they are loads better as a handbrake and you can forget about them for at least 100,000 miles and then just replace the shoes - the drums last for ever,  unlike discs.

The rear brakes barely contribute 20% to total braking effort,  drums are more than adequate and pretty maintenance free. 
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: jazzaro on October 24, 2019, 03:28:01 PM
Hybrids have been sold in the UK. At present Auto Trader are listing 17 for sale.
Only previous generation of Jazz has been sold in Europe as Hybrid (IMA system, the same of Insight), while the present generation (GK)  has been sold  only in Japan and Malaysia with the Hybrid powertrain. Honda planned to sell it worldwide as the previous gen, but some tecnhical problems (clutches, hydraulics, software... they made 6 recalls in first 2 years...) brought Honda to keep the I-DCD in their homeland.
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: Jocko on October 24, 2019, 03:43:33 PM
New ones will be intelligent Multi-Mode Drive (i-MMD), same as the C-RV hybrid.
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: jazzaro on October 24, 2019, 03:59:16 PM
So it has a completely digital instrument panel - hope they have seen fit to include a temperature gauge to replace that silly blue light ?   The 8th gen Civic ( 2006 to 2011 ) is a masterclass in good dash design - nice high level digital speedo just at bottom edge of windscreen so you don't really have to look down,  everything within easy reach,  proper big buttons and knobs and a rotary switch for the headlight load adjustment ( not an impossible to see tiny slide switch down by your right knee like in MK1 and 2 Jazz ). 
I hope so, I appreciate a good T° gauge. Unfortunately people who use the  car as a minipimer, I mean  without understanding what happens inside the box in front of their feet (i.e. my wife, who discovered the meaning of the gauge in our old Renault after 8 years..) does not care about the indication, so manufacturers changed it with a light. In our Jazz, the blue light disappear when the liquid reaches 43°C (110°F.), and the standard operation is about 83-85°C  (181-185°F)...
Quote
Don't know why people hanker after rear discs though,  they are more trouble that they are worth - there is a good reason B segment cars in Europe have changed back to drums,  they are loads better as a handbrake and you can forget about them for at least 100,000 miles and then just replace the shoes - the drums last for ever,  unlike discs.

The rear brakes barely contribute 20% to total braking effort,  drums are more than adequate and pretty maintenance free.
The main reason is money, drums are cheaper than discs. Technically speaking, drums are better than discs only as handbrake, because static friction is higher. In all other fields discs  perform better, heat resistance, sensitivity to the pedal and reaction time (if you have to press and release many times per second they work better, and this is important with ABS and ESP). Talkin about heat resistance and sensitivity, Honda in 2015 Jazz and 2013-on Civics uses the AHA system, aka a software that brakes internal wheels to be slighty braked to prevent understeer, first rear wheel and then the front, so also the system needs sensitivity for low pressure braking, and brakes have to dissipate a higher quantity of heat. If you drive very fast in a very curvy way, rear brakes will be hot even if you don't press the brake pedal.
About maintenance free, I disagree: discs, as they can dry better and faster after rain, are less prone to rust and dust, changing shoes is usually  easier as checking their residual thickness.  I agree that braking effort is very low, but it's the last reason I have to prefer them...
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: jazzaro on October 24, 2019, 04:02:03 PM
New ones will be intelligent Multi-Mode Drive (i-MMD), same as the C-RV hybrid.
Yep. The pattern is the same, but Jazz will have a smaller i-mmd, I hope similar to the new Insight.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a26287347/2019-honda-insight-reliability-maintenance/
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: Downsizer on October 24, 2019, 04:16:21 PM
Yep. The pattern is the same, but Jazz will have a smaller i-mmd, I hope similar to the new Insight.
[/quote]
Eliminating the gearbox/cvt should save a bob or two, but against that, two electric motors and a battery have to be paid for.  My guess is that only the base model will be under £20k, but I hope to be pleasantly surprised.
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: jazzaro on October 24, 2019, 04:26:16 PM
Yep. The pattern is the same, but Jazz will have a smaller i-mmd, I hope similar to the new Insight.
Eliminating the gearbox/cvt should save a bob or two, but against that, two electric motors and a battery have to be paid for.  My guess is that only the base model will be under £20k, but I hope to be pleasantly surprised.
IMHO  price comparison has to be done with Toyota Yaris Hsd, the main competitor in B hybrid segment. Also Yaris has no traditional gearbox (there's only an epiciclic gear), has two electric motors (but smaller than Hondas), has battery and has a regulator.
Jazz's cabin is bigger, but this cannot bring Honda to overprice its B car if she (he? it?) want to fight against Toyota: it would mean losing before the start.
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: Downsizer on October 24, 2019, 05:26:19 PM
The more competition there is in this sector the better for us all!  As far as I can see, the cheapest hybrid Yaris is listed at £18,390, and a few additions soon reaches £20k.
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: jazzaro on October 24, 2019, 05:56:32 PM
Sure!!
I'm only worried because the first Jazz hybrid lost the competition with Yaris and Auris, since the price of the Jazz was similar to the price of an Auris (almost in Italy..). So price placement of this new Jazz has to be different from the second generation.
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: Jocko on October 25, 2019, 05:21:16 PM
I am sure Honda will have judged exactly where it wants the new Jazz to sit.
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: langserve on October 27, 2019, 03:32:17 PM
We went to our Honda dealer today to get some work done on our 2019 Fit (don't ask) and chatted with the salesman. According to him:


1. It will be available with a petrol engine instead of hybrid, in Japan, at least. We don't all buy hybrids here though an awful lot do even when they live in small cities and their mileage is modest.

2. The styling is an attempt to woo back young female buyers who have more or less deserted the GK Fit.
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: Downsizer on October 28, 2019, 12:40:21 PM
2. The styling is an attempt to woo back young female buyers who have more or less deserted the GK Fit.
In the UK, I don't think any Jazz has been popular with young drivers, male or female.  I'm puzzled as to why young Japanese ladies don't like the GK series!
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: langserve on October 28, 2019, 12:53:34 PM
2. The styling is an attempt to woo back young female buyers who have more or less deserted the GK Fit.
In the UK, I don't think any Jazz has been popular with young drivers, male or female.  I'm puzzled as to why young Japanese ladies don't like the GK series!

I don't claim any special skills in this department but I am told the GK series fails the kawaii test. It is too angular and butch looking. It needed to have more curves and be prettier.

I think Honda hope to get young couples to buy a Jazz/Fit as their first family car and then trade up to a bigger Honda later. And not just Japan - I think kawaii culture has spread all over asia and especially the far east. Look at how ubiquitous something like Hello Kitty is.

I see some young people driving Jazz/Fits but most are middle aged and older drivers - of which there are a huge numbers here. I have seen a surprising number of fully restored GD1s with varying levels of modifications driven by young people. The latest generation looks very similar to the GD1 shape to me. Perhaps that's why - Honda have detected a bit of a cult following for the GD1 among young people.
Title: Re: MK4 Jazz ?
Post by: jazzaro on October 28, 2019, 03:55:11 PM
I agree with the salesman, talking about style, point two, my wife likes the Mk4 more than our GK.
About point one... this are EU sales data:
The graph http://carsalesbase.com/european-sales-2018-subcompact-car-segment/ says that  european brands are main sellers in Europe, and all non-europeans brands fight for crumbs. All except Toyota with Yaris.
Another interesting data can be found here:
https://newsroom.toyota.eu/45-of-toyota-motor-europe-tme-sales-in-q1-are-hybrid-electric-vehicles/
More than 50% of Yaris, in EUDM, are sold as hybrid, so looks like that non-EU brands can sell good amount of cars only if they have hybrids in their range.
I talk about Europe and not single countries, too small to be considered by manufacturers even if UK  is main selling country for Honda, 1 Honda of 3 sold in EUDM is RHD.
My cent: maybe Honda big bosses have considered that in EU it's not possible to earn money anymore with their traditional powetrains in cheaper segments, so they're moving the production to hybrids and EVs. And maybe many of who would buy a Jazz in Europe would switch to hybrid if possible, so jazz sold with traditional petrol engines (and manual gearboxes) would be less than the present GKs; too poor sales for a variant, shipped from Japan, to be worth... So in EUDM only hybrid Jazz.
Maybe this switch is also to modify the brand's image as something of high tech, clean and "different from usual choice"...