Mk4 2021 Jazz Brake failure

[Cobb2]

Thank you AshimotoKO for producing even clearer evidence of a manufacturing fault in the brake simulator. This certainly should be very valuable.
Like peteo48 I have been very enthusiastic about Honda over many years and I fully understand your feelings to not carry on with your Jazz. However, I will not jump ship just yet as long as Honda sort this out properly and promptly, which means making it public in the UK and Europe, covering owners costs, and of course replacing the part with a remanufactured one without the fault.
As most of us realise this Mk4 is actually a very good car and it would be a great pity if its and Honda’s reputation is badly damaged by this episode, serious as it is.  Even worse if any accident is caused by it. The only positive thing I can say is the two times the brake problem arose with me it was just when starting the car and effectively a fail safe warning came up and the brakes were spongy and hand brake came on. If this problem occurs when driving it is even more dangerous – I would be interested to know if anybody has had it while actually driving.

[Cobb2]

i

[AshimotoK0]

So it would seem that the problem is the pressure sensor within the module failing due to contaminant oil (during manufacture) weeping inside and causing corrosion. I bet further down the line that some entrepreneurial company will come up with a repair for these modules that fail. 

I guess this must be the part in question (made by Nissin).

 https://www.proxyparts.com/car-parts-stock/information/part-number/zbadda/part/brake-servo/partid/18801129/

[Lord Voltermore]

If the part,or one very similar to it, is made by Nissin, an independent OE ( Original equipment ) component manufacturer , and Branded as Nissin in the casting, it would suggest the item is not exclusive to Honda.

Its quite possible other car makers also  design their brake systems to use fundamentally the same  Nissin made component,maybe with slight variations in size etc.    It would be a whole lot easier than designing  and manufacturing your own from scratch.

These other car makers may be facing and dealing with the same  issue.  So maybe look carefully before you leap  to another brand.
If I  was aware of every maintenance  alert issued by Boeing and Airbus I might never fly again  .
 
The Major safety recall in recent years for  faulty  air bags made by the Takata corporation affected many makes of car, not just Japanese ones.  And as a  precaution was extended to countries where no faults had  ever actually been reported.   

[AshimotoK0]

Interested what the other unit is for sale here ... some kind of pump maybe used in conjuction with the servo unit that is failing. For the price it looks an incredible price for both units if they are indeed as described condition wise. Of course the booster unit may be on the cusp of pressure sensor failure. I am an an electrics engineer and it would seem to me that surely the manufacturer could swap out the black box with the pressure sensor in it .. but hey ho without taking one apart how am I to know. The module would doubtless not be available as a spare part but faced with a deluge of failures/returns maybe this could be addressed with Nissin.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175697062028?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338353466&toolid=20006%26customid%3Ds%253AGS%253Bgc%253ACj0KCQjwzZmwBhD8ARIsAH4v1gXO1U7MMbh6g5UvgEeflGzeRfVxBbNaSy_QUbhQIhiwEON58-otwo0aAghbEALw_wcB%253Bpt%253A1%253Bchoc%253A2&customid=s%3AGS%3Bgc%3ACj0KCQjwzZmwBhD8ARIsAH4v1gXO1U7MMbh6g5UvgEeflGzeRfVxBbNaSy_QUbhQIhiwEON58-otwo0aAghbEALw_wcB%3Bpt%3A1%3Bchoc%3A1&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwzZmwBhD8ARIsAH4v1gXO1U7MMbh6g5UvgEeflGzeRfVxBbNaSy_QUbhQIhiwEON58-otwo0aAghbEALw_wcB

[AshimotoK0]

This USA Accord looks to have a similar unit.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/204232891772

[AshimotoK0]

I have LOADS of classic Honda bikes I am restoring and have a mate in Japan (ex pat ,,, Brummie) who buys rare parts for me and ships to UK. Also I recently wanted a genuine rear camera for my Mitsi Mirage (2023 Jazz e:HEV is my wifes car)  It was £120 from a breakers in UK .. Won for £8 in auction on Yahoo Japan (no eBay there)

Anyway searched for the FIT 1.5  e:HEV brake booster and came up with this (it's actually two units in the listing the other is the other braking part). Equivalent to around £130.

Unfortunately we were blocked access to Yahoo Japan in the UK a couple of years ago but i get around it by setting my PC VPN to Tokyo Japan so I did a screenshot of the part.

https://store.shopping.yahoo.co.jp/ngp-parts-o-store/10500-22019990.html?__ysp=ZTpIRVYgRklUIGJyYWtlIGJvb3N0ZXI%3D#

Sorry for keeping posting links to the used parts and I will stop now. It was mainly to show that used parts are out there if someone is faced with a well out of warranty main dealer repair bill. Hopefully the whole issue will be resolved by Honda in due course, hopefully before my wife's car runs out of warranty (has exacly 2 years left as of today)...  Just wondering if the booster unit that is failing is coded to the individual vehicle though... which would be a bit of a downer for anyone trying to FIT ( ) a used part.

[AshimotoK0]

 

[Lord Voltermore]

If it ever comes to disputes about liability for a car outside warranty we do at least now have supporting evidence of an admission by Honda of a  manufacturing  fault. Which you may not have in a similar dispute with another car brand.

Also if Nissin make similar items  they either made the original ones for Honda , or their product is an  after market alternative.  Either way it offers hope that should repair be necessary once the cars become older  it will be possible to avoid Honda prices.   

If the cost of the part is still high  there is scope for a small business to offer exchange   refurbished ones, with just the sensor /black box electrics replaced and improved  oil sealing. 

[Cobb2]

Thats fine AshimotoKO to make your posts about the part - you have certainly contributed interesting detail about the part in question - excellent research!
 Lord V - maybe reconditioned parts will be available sometime in the future when cars are older which would be good, however, you won't be surprised at this stage with a fairly young low mileage car, I would certainly want a new part and so will others - all provided free. Apparently Honda have been the main shareholder in Nissin, not sure if they still are, but there is an interesting Wikipedia page on them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissin_Kogyo#

[yooser]

In reply to Lord Voltermore concerning Boeing and Airbus with regards to TSB's ( technical service bulletins )and safety recalls etc , you would be quite surprised just how many all the major manufacturers have recalls and modifications etc , it is far better to have a recall than just leave until it becomes a major fault.
This really applies to all cars , cycles, motorcycles etc etc.
I worked for 30 years with Airbus and they were quite quick to solve service problems for in-service aircraft, part of my job was to travel to where the aircraft was to help fix the problems.
I hope Honda doesn't try to hide the brake fault ,it would forever hit their good reliability reputation for the cars and motorcycles, I have owned Honda motorcycles and the Jazz is my second car from Honda, the first being a 1960's S800 sports car !
I won't sell my car just because of this trouble, I'll try to keep it in perspective , just look at the problems with Land Rover for example, they are fitting reconditioned parts due to lack of new spares.

[peteo48]

Some good points made above about getting rid of the car because of this issue. I guess I am a bit risk averse and the idea that this fault could come up to bite me really does cause me stress. I've had 6 Hondas in all and it's their reliability that has kept me coming back for more.

Thinking about it a bit more I will probably hold on to the car. I could actually manage without a car if it had to go off the road for a while and, as people have said, the risk of a frying pan/fire scenario is also a factor (I gather the Toyota CHR has had similar issues).

[Nicksey]

Although I have had 3 warranty repairs in my 72 plate EX, mirror motor, screen-wash nozzle and delaminating windscreen, the brake issue I hope was pre my manufacture. Knowing how many other makes regularly have recalls, faulty parts and software update requirements, I am not going to suddenly decide to jump ship and offload the Jazz. As someone has mentioned previously, the Jazz is a great car and way ahead in my opinion of other hybrids. The brake issue I am sure will become a public topic soon enough, and will be replaced to avoid any negative effects on Honda's reputation.

[AshimotoK0]

 . Apparently Honda have been the main shareholder in Nissin, not sure if they still are, but there is an interesting Wikipedia page on them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissin_Kogyo#

Seems they are now owned by Hitachi

"On 30 October 2019, Nissin Kogyo along with 2 other companies Keihin Corporation and Showa Corporation announced that they would be merged with Hitachi Automotive Systems to became the new company called Hitachi Astemo".

[Lord Voltermore]

 As of 30 march 2023  Hitachi Astemo is 40% Hitachi, 40% Honda and 20% Jic Capital. = 100% Hitachi Astemo Electric motor systems Ltd .  Even this may have changed since then.   

https://global.honda/en/newsroom/news/2023/c230330beng.html

So it seems the new EV, and Hybrid  technology brings new financial interests  and  investments  . Hopefully they will still wish to preserve their reputations.  Maybe the other big players in the Japanese automotive and electronics world will have their own alliances.

   If I  really understood it all  I might be a Billionaire in £, $ and Euro  not just  in Iranian Rial, Vietnamese Dong and similar worthless currencies