Author Topic: Weak handbrake on cars fitted with rear disc brakes  (Read 50070 times)

guest200

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Weak handbrake on cars fitted with rear disc brakes
« on: November 10, 2007, 10:02:12 AM »
I have been reading with interest about the brakes of these vehicles, and when I see what people have been saying about their handbrakes I felt that I needed to put my experiences on here.

We bought our brand new Jazz from Penine Honda in April 05.
In July my wife did some shopping with our 10 year old daughter. When they returned home the car was parked on the drive which has a steep incline (1in5). The handbrake was applied and the girls went inside. After 10 minutes my daughter offered to bring some of the shopping in from the back seat of the car. She opened the rear nearside door and entered the car to get the shopping and the car started to slip down the drive. At this point my daughter panicked and jumped out of the car and the open door caught itself on the garden wall next to it thus stopping it. My wife was next to my daughter and pulled her out of the way but this could have been a serious accident.

I went straight down to Penine who tested the handbrake and informed me that with the handle fully applied it only just passed the MOT criteria, so they adjusted it so that it would pass on 8 notches but this meant that there was only minimal clearance between the caliper and the disc, which in turn meant that if the brakes were applied often, the disc would expand and then the caliper would be touching the disc, causing expansion of the disc.
I had the car independantly inspected and was told that the car did not have a seperate braking system for the handbrake and that if the vehicle was being used for town driving then the discs could heat up thus meaning when you come to park the car on an incline the brake would initially hold the vehicle but when the discs cool down and contract, the grip of the handbrake is lessened.
I called Honda UK and the girl who I initially talked to said she had a Jazz and her handbrake was not very good.

After numerous letters Honda said that they were not prepared to do anything about the handbrake as it was leagal.

For a company that apparently devotes so much of its time trying to conserve the planet, I think it should look at immediate safety issues with at least as much effort.

I have only found this site very recently and I have 2 years of anger built up inside me that I have had to unleash on this page.

I have owned 3 Civics and a Prelude in the past (all auto’s until the Jazz) and have been very happy with them.

Am I the only one who thinks the handbrake is dangerous?

guest102

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Re: MERGED: Weak handbrake on cars fitted with rear disc brakes
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2007, 02:42:12 PM »
Disc parking brakes are never that good - which is why Mercedes Volvo etc which have disc rear brakes use a separate drum for parking brakes.
The problem of discs cooling and allowing the brake to become less effective is well known to vehicle designers - it is assumed that the contraction would be compensated for by the tension of the cable if the brake is applied firmly enough, and is allowed for in the newer vehicles with electronic parking brakes.
The MOT requirement for parking brake is 16% efficiency, being the 3rd line of braking, a threshold which I personally think is a bit low.
Most of the older vehicle handbooks used to advise you to put the transmission into’P’ on autos or 1st gear on manuals when parking on an incline - still good advice but somehow now omitted.

guest200

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Re: MERGED: Weak handbrake on cars fitted with rear disc brakes
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2007, 03:34:12 PM »
Thanks for the info on braking percentages. I did not know that. I also thought that all cars used a seperate braking system for handbrakes which I found out a couple of years ago to be wrong.
As for leaving auto’s in ‘P’, perhaps this is the reason why I never had a problem with my other Hondas with them all being automatic.
My wife does now leave the car in 1st gear but she does not always remember to dip the clutch when starting it later and we now have a garage door with a dint in it.
Barring this 1 issue I am otherwise very pleased with the car.

On a lighter note Iam going to post a new topic on leather seats in the Jazz!

crookesjoe

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Re: MERGED: Weak handbrake on cars fitted with rear disc brakes
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2008, 09:35:19 PM »
We purchased a new Honda Jazz in Sept 07. We were happy with our car- we had read all good test reports on this model. Double the number of spark plugs you would get from a normal engine, no cam belt to renew and a good looking car. Hoping it would last us many year.But after just a few days we were very disappointed with the inefficiency of the hand brake.My wife said she did not want to drive this car.We live in a hilly part of Yorkshire and driving up a steep incline to a set of traffic lights followed by a stream of cars, we found ourselves creeping backwards, not a lot of fun!!!Parking in tight urban situations on inclines is not at all easy when the handbrake has to be pulled on as hard as physically possible. Unless you are a body builder, then I fear the cable would SNAP. Adjustment at the local dealears, after 1500 miles, did help but I think there is little room for adjustment. The local dealer is obviously used to dealing with this and will only say" Bring it in Sir and we'll adjust". Every 1500 miles??? What a joke. Contacted Honda, not much joy, just make sure it's in gear and point wheels to kerb! Advice I was given by my dad when I was driving an old Ford Popular!!! NOT A 2007 brand new Honda. Some safety record Honda, since you always bragging about safety. Any suggestions, this is so frustrating. Just reaches MOT standards, what a farce.

guest164

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Re: MERGED: Weak handbrake on cars fitted with rear disc brakes
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2008, 09:41:43 PM »
I can agree with the general findings on the Jazz handbrake. I have owned a pre-face-lift 2003 model and I currently own a 2005 face-lift model, both 1.4 SE CVT-7s and both from new.

The first model had drums at the rear and did not suffer at all from any doubt over the handbrake holding the car however with 15K miles my 2005 year car was starting to roll away. It took a number of visits to a dealer who seemed totally unable to solve the problem despite much apparent brake cleaning and handbrake adjustment on his part.

At the time I was a little angry with my regular dealer -the I got my first Jazz from (another story) - and was using a dealer further away from my usual one.

Eventually fate solved the brake problem... one night a mystery driver scuffed my car bumper whilst parking or getting out of the parking space which left me with a trip to the paintshop. Since I really rated the paintshop at my regular garage, I went back and whilst I was there I decided to mention about the handbrake.

My regular dealer looked into it and found out that one rear disk pad on each side of the car had siezed on to its caliper slide. This basically meant I was only using one side of each disk to brake with and also to apply the handbrake on.

Compared with the handbrake, the footbrake is more powerful working on the rear brakes plus you also have the front brakes to help with the braking, which is why I hadn't noticed any real drop in footbrake performance.

My regular dealer stripped the rear brakes, cleaned the slides, put the appropriate slip lubricant on each slide and reassembled, using the old pads in the original positions.

The brakes and the handbrake were excellent after that! However the foreman told me that I should do the strip/clean/reassemble everytime I noticed the handbrake starting to feel less effective to save wear on the fronts and more importantly the front disks - I didn't realise that the braking friction material is in places harder than the disk itself!

So that's what I do - I usually get about 15 - 20K miles before the rear pads need stripped/ cleaned/ lubricated and reasssembled. I also keep the jet-wash soap and hose away from the rear and front brakes calipers now and I am generally more careful when cleaning the wheels. I don't want to blast off the lubricant - easy with the high pressure jetwashes at some garages.

Sadly I has to replace my front disks at 65K because they were just too thin... Can't help wondering if it's because I'm always braking a lot harder with the front than was designed for -  so why are discs better than drums Honda? Did any one ask for them... is it just marketing hype? Or are ABS easier to apply to discs than drums? Or another, good reason? Lighter? Let the debate begin  :)

Dunk.

guest238

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Re: MERGED: Weak handbrake on cars fitted with rear disc brakes
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2008, 09:18:52 PM »
Disc brakes should give better stopping power, that's why they tend to be used alround in place of rear drums. Not installing a drum just for the parking brake is just cost cutting.


culzean

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Re: MERGED: Weak handbrake on cars fitted with rear disc brakes
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2008, 04:14:11 PM »
Drum brakes are much better for the handbrake than discs and perfectly adequate for the amount of braking required for the rear wheels of any normal car (ie. not a Ferrari).

I have a friend who runs a garage and he said the 'electric' handbrakes fitted to Ford, VW etc are more trouble than they are worth and are always going wrong.  I must agree after my brother-in-laws experiences with his Ford C-Max, and now his Passat.

Drums are not a cheap option, but a sensible, reliable, well-proven engineering solution to the parking brake problem.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

guest523

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Re: MERGED: Weak handbrake on cars fitted with rear disc brakes
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2008, 07:30:19 AM »
Have a used jazz next tuesday (2nd sept) have had a 98 fiesta before this it looks like the handbrake is one thing ill recognise. Just for the record you should always place a car in first or reverse (dependant on your direction on the incline) as a secondary support to the handbrake. the driving test demands this to pass.Frankly im shocked some people dont.

guest561

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Re: MERGED: Weak handbrake on cars fitted with rear disc brakes
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2008, 10:16:07 AM »
Handbrake is terrible on our 54 plate Jazz.. Asked the garage to sort it out, and they tightened the cable- obviously that has made no difference whatsoever.. It is going back in again today, hopefully they can do something with it.. I have to leave it in gear when I park it on a hill, or it wouldn't be there when I came back! As for hill starts- it is a nightmare -a race to get your foot from the brake to the accelerator before you run back onto the car behind- the handbrake is totally useless. We have had new discs and pads on the rear wheels this week and thought maybe that would help- no such luck.

bill888

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Re: MERGED: Weak handbrake on cars fitted with rear disc brakes
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2008, 12:03:33 PM »
There is a thread here about the handbrake issue on Jazzi fitted with rear disc brakes.  The second posting suggests the self/auto-adjusters fitted to rear disc brakes may be contributing to the problem.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=4&t=65645





« Last Edit: September 30, 2008, 12:19:25 PM by bill888 »
2007(57) Jazz 1.4SE CVT-7 (GE3 - made in China)

RichardA

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Re: MERGED: Weak handbrake on cars fitted with rear disc brakes
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2009, 09:55:42 PM »
Anyone heard about this?

From Honest John's Jazz review:

"Late 2008/early2009 parking brake ratchet recall."


JazzyB

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Re: MERGED: Weak handbrake on cars fitted with rear disc brakes
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2009, 06:35:22 AM »
Ive just read that too, but I think that relates to the current model not the 2002-08 one

It should be listed on the current one's report

guest516

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Re: MERGED: Weak handbrake on cars fitted with rear disc brakes
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2009, 09:11:49 PM »
appears on www.vosa.gov.uk honda jazz recalls & would seem to be 2004/05 cars


guest806

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Re: MERGED: Weak handbrake on cars fitted with rear disc brakes
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2009, 07:50:04 AM »
Does the 55 reg Jazz have an automatic adjusting handbrake, if not does anyone know how difficult this is?

Thank you

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