Author Topic: Corroded Brake Pipe & Other Woes - ***Video Link Attached***.  (Read 1185 times)

gtd2000

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Corroded Brake Pipe & Other Woes - ***Video Link Attached***.
« on: February 18, 2021, 11:06:05 PM »
Had the GF's trusty 2006 1.4 DSi in for the MOT today and it failed, mostly on the brakes, plus a grocery list of advisories which generally amount to nothing at all really, mainly greased up brake pipes  ;D

The rear brakes were dragging - I may have over tweaked the handbrake cable yesterday but the handbrake was only giving 12% max, on the test and it needs 15% supposedly to pass?

The tester advised that the handbrake mechanism was stiff and was not returning or moving across the full range - I've no idea if this is accurate but I can easily agree the handbrake was very poor indeed - wish it had drums like the previous Jazz, which never had any brake issues that I recall.

On that basis, I've ordered two rear calipers and a new front O/S caliper. It cost 115 for all three delivered, so that's a pretty decent price, in my opinion.
No point in messing around with sticky calipers and Scottish winters, as I've found that to be an exercise in futility.
I'd already replaced the very sticky front N/S caliper on Wednesday. so that's a full set of new calipers, all round, for the re-test.

There was mention of the rearward brake pipe as a failure and it sounds like it's not that last portion of the brake line (I know that it's in pristine condition) into the caliper but a section that goes up and over something, I think I know which part that is but it's been a while since I was last under the car - probably last year?

Does anybody have a diagram of the brake line system, so that I know which section of pipe it is and how long it might be? I see that you can order brake likes ready made on eBay these days but was thinking I might just ask a local place to make one up. I'd be happy to make the lines up myself but it's usually pretty cheap to get one made.

The other item, was a worn track rod end but fortunately there was one in a box of new spares from the old car. (If anybody needs a set of shoes for the drums or the front O/S drop link, just let me know, as they are just gathering dust)


« Last Edit: February 28, 2021, 12:31:30 AM by gtd2000 »

sparky Paul

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Re: Corroded Brake Pipe & Other Woes - MOT Failure.
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2021, 12:04:27 AM »
Usually cheaper to get them made up locally, if you can't be bothered.

It's probably where the two pipes from the front to back go up, outwards, and over the rear beam axle - that's one of the favourite rusty spots. These pipes go right to the ABS modulator at the front offside of the engine bay, and they are a right pain to replace - just look at the shape of them in the pic below.

Access to the bit that rusts is pretty good. If they are beyond cleaning up, I would cut where it's accessible forward of the bad bits and just replace from there to the flexes.  To fit the inline union, hot the steel pipe up to a glow before flaring to get a decent flare with a hand flaring tool. Before cutting, cling film under the reservoir cap to stop the fluid running through, and be ready for a bit spitting out when you hot the pipe up.

If it's at the inner end of the trailing arms, that bit rusts too, the easiest option is to replace the complete pipe from the inner flexy to the outer flexy.


Pic of the brake lines here

« Last Edit: February 19, 2021, 12:47:14 AM by sparky Paul »

Jocko

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Re: Corroded Brake Pipe & Other Woes - MOT Failure.
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2021, 08:14:24 AM »
I just got the garage to make and replace my rear brake pipes on my mechanic's advice. Then they did the retest.

culzean

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Re: Corroded Brake Pipe & Other Woes - MOT Failure.
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2021, 08:59:02 AM »
On the MK1 my wife had to have one of the rear pipes replaced,  the ( Honda ) garage just replaced the back 300mm where the pipe went onto the torsion beam, before it joined up with flexi.  I could see the reason for that part going rusty though, the length of the pipe from ABS pump had a plastic covering moulded onto the pipe,  however someone at Honda thought it was a great idea to strip the plastic off the pipe for the last 300mm or so and leave bare steel pipe in one of the most exposed places.  It is different on the MK2,  the plastic covering has been left on, so unless a big rock hits the pipe and splits the plastic it should be fine, although that part of pipe is pretty well protected from impact a lot of the spray gets sucked under there.. 
« Last Edit: February 19, 2021, 09:03:32 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

sparky Paul

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Re: Corroded Brake Pipe & Other Woes - MOT Failure.
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2021, 09:34:44 AM »
On the MK1 my wife had to have one of the rear pipes replaced,  the ( Honda ) garage just replaced the back 300mm where the pipe went onto the torsion beam, before it joined up with flexi.

That's all I would do, replacing the whole pipe to the front looks a nightmare.

gtd2000

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Re: Corroded Brake Pipe & Other Woes - MOT Failure.
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2021, 10:18:36 AM »
Usually cheaper to get them made up locally, if you can't be bothered.

It's probably where the two pipes from the front to back go up, outwards, and over the rear beam axle - that's one of the favourite rusty spots. These pipes go right to the ABS modulator at the front offside of the engine bay, and they are a right pain to replace - just look at the shape of them in the pic below.

Access to the bit that rusts is pretty good. If they are beyond cleaning up, I would cut where it's accessible forward of the bad bits and just replace from there to the flexes.  To fit the inline union, hot the steel pipe up to a glow before flaring to get a decent flare with a hand flaring tool. Before cutting, cling film under the reservoir cap to stop the fluid running through, and be ready for a bit spitting out when you hot the pipe up.

If it's at the inner end of the trailing arms, that bit rusts too, the easiest option is to replace the complete pipe from the inner flexy to the outer flexy.


Pic of the brake lines here



Cracking pic and yes it looks pretty congested up at the front for sure!

I think I'll just phone around, due to the weather, to see if somebody can make up a brake line and fit it at the same time.

Jocko

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Re: Corroded Brake Pipe & Other Woes - MOT Failure.
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2021, 10:53:55 AM »
As I said, why not get the MOT station to do it and retest. I just sat and read my book while they did it all.

gtd2000

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Re: Corroded Brake Pipe & Other Woes - MOT Failure.
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2021, 10:57:36 AM »
As I said, why not get the MOT station to do it and retest. I just sat and read my book while they did it all.

I've just spoken with a pal that has a tool and a garage to get into, out of the weather, so we're going to do that tomorrow.

All adds to the learning experience, which, in turn saves a good deal of money in my opinion. I agree it would be much more pleasant to just sit and read, while somebody else does the magic though  :D

Jocko

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Re: Corroded Brake Pipe & Other Woes - MOT Failure.
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2021, 11:05:49 AM »
As my son-in-law said. That way they do the pipes they are concerned about. Nothing worse than replacing the wrong pipe.

sparky Paul

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Re: Corroded Brake Pipe & Other Woes - MOT Failure.
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2021, 11:23:55 AM »
As my son-in-law said. That way they do the pipes they are concerned about. Nothing worse than replacing the wrong pipe.

It's always worth making absolutely certain what the tester is referring to when he fails something, it's easy to end up replacing/replacing the wrong bit if you don't. My MOT man usually points anything nasty out during the test, but if not, I make sure I ask.

The fail comment on the MOT certificate is often not very explicit, especially with things like brake pipes.

One of the reasons I like to do my own brake pipes is that most garages throw them on, doing all the bending rough by hand. All perfectly serviceable, but I've seem some really 'artistic' efforts. I try to take a bit more time, copying the shapes of the original pipes with a pipe bender, making it look as original as I can. Even the MOT man has commented that they look great  ;)

sparky Paul

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Re: Corroded Brake Pipe & Other Woes - MOT Failure.
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2021, 11:30:15 AM »
Cracking pic and yes it looks pretty congested up at the front for sure!

It's not only that, I'm sure these lines are attached to the body before anything else, lots of stuff is over them. You'll be pulling out your hair threading the pipes through to the front and around the engine bay, and that's before you start breaking 15 year old clips!

The only sensible option is to join in a bit of pipe to replace the bad end.

gtd2000

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Re: Corroded Brake Pipe & Other Woes - MOT Failure.
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2021, 07:12:56 PM »
Went down to a pals place today, he has a large barn with a good range of tools.

We had a look at the brake lines and it was very easy to spot the failed section. I'm pretty sure that if I'd been able to get under the car and check things over before the test I could have made things look much better. Alas, due to the weather, this wasn't possible.

Unfortunately, he didn't feel confident doing the repair due to not having a lift.

I spoke with another friend who owns a garage business today, about repairing the brake pipe, he's going to try to squeeze me in next week but he's absolutely rammed with jobs.

Was actually saying he's never seen anything like the current amount of business in the 20 years he's been running the place. This is mainly due to the problems with covid. He's absolutely astonished at the level of demand.

If he can't get it in and repaired, I'll just get the MOT place to do the repair when it goes back for the retest.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 07:16:31 PM by gtd2000 »

sparky Paul

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Re: Corroded Brake Pipe & Other Woes - MOT Failure.
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2021, 07:24:52 PM »
I usually do these sorts of jobs on car ramps, rather than bother a friend who has a pit, but there's no joy in doing it in this weather, or indeed getting covered in brake fluid, diesel, gearbox oil, etc.. It's not going to cost a fortune to get it done by the MOT garage, save your enthusiasm for jobs in the summer.

Because of the covid extensions, I've now got two MOTs out of four that fall in December - I think I will put them through again in the summer to get it back to some sort of normality.

gtd2000

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Re: Corroded Brake Pipe & Other Woes - MOT Failure.
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2021, 12:21:02 PM »
I usually do these sorts of jobs on car ramps, rather than bother a friend who has a pit, but there's no joy in doing it in this weather, or indeed getting covered in brake fluid, diesel, gearbox oil, etc.. It's not going to cost a fortune to get it done by the MOT garage, save your enthusiasm for jobs in the summer.

Because of the covid extensions, I've now got two MOTs out of four that fall in December - I think I will put them through again in the summer to get it back to some sort of normality.

Yeah, the ramps certainly give decent enough access on a nice dry day, I'm in the same boat as you with my own car, a KIA Ceed SW, used to be a July MoT, now it's a January Mot! Not a great time of year for faffing about underneath it!

Fortunately, mine went through without any problems (same place as the Jazz) but I'll just be more inclined to get a good look at the car in October or early November from now on.

gtd2000

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Re: Corroded Brake Pipe & Other Woes - MOT Failure.
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2021, 04:26:20 PM »
Well, I got all of the new calipers fitted, ending with the last one, first thing this morning.

Car glides along the road without any hint of dragging now - should be good for 70+MPG now  :D

I still need to fettle the handbrake - brand new caliper and pads and it's still pretty poor but I'll get it tightened up to the max. It's working OK but certainly not what you'd expect on any other car.

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