Author Topic: Which brake pads and discs in 2020 for GD Jazz?  (Read 3847 times)

bill888

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Which brake pads and discs in 2020 for GD Jazz?
« on: July 11, 2020, 02:57:10 PM »
Sorry to resurrect an old subject.  I reviewed past posts on this forum about best brake pads and discs.  Pagid and Brembo seem to be favourite, or a combination of the two, so I'm none the wiser.

Looking at Eurocarparts website, they list Brembo as 'popular', but is that because they happen to be a few quid cheaper than Pagid (I thought Pagid was cheaper than Brembo in the past)?

I've fitted Pagid brake pads to R56 Mini Cooper and not had any issues, so considering Pagid parts for the Jazz too.

I did see one comment that suggested Pagid brake discs don't rust as quickly - are they part painted or something?


Also, I think Honda brake pads come with thin metals shims that are fitted to the back of their pads.  See pic. 

Are they supposed to be transferred and used with replacement pads from Brembo/Pagid etc?


2007(57) Jazz 1.4SE CVT-7 (GE3 - made in China)

Derkie54

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Re: Which brake pads and discs in 2020 for GD Jazz?
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2020, 03:43:51 PM »
Can't comment on pads but I think those shims are probably anti-squeal shims and would be left on whatever pads are used.
It will be alright in the end, if it's not alright then it's not the end !

sparky Paul

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Re: Which brake pads and discs in 2020 for GD Jazz?
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2020, 03:51:09 PM »
I stick to Mintex whenever available, same manufacturer as Pagid. Not the cheapest, but I've fitted many sets over the years and they always seem to wear beautifully flat and seem to resist corrosion.

The shims can be reused if they are not damaged, and you fit them to all replacement pads, regardless of manufacturer.

Usual advice with these is to remove the shims and meticulously clean the surfaces of the caliper underneath, remove the hard scale back to clean metal with a scraper - they are prone to corrosion, and subsequent binding with new pads.

bill888

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Re: Which brake pads and discs in 2020 for GD Jazz?
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2020, 04:17:54 PM »
After a bit of googling, I didn't realise that EuroCarparts owns the right to use the 'Pagid' brand name in the UK.  According to wikipedia, TMD Friction own Pagid and Mintex.

ECP only list Mintex front brake pads (out of stock) and discs at almost 40% less than the Pagid parts.  Mintex seems to be cheapest products sold by ECP, Pagid is 2nd most expensive. Go figure....

No Mintex rear brake pads listed though.

I found this photo posted on mercedesclub.org.uk forum, favouring Brembo.....
« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 04:42:25 PM by bill888 »
2007(57) Jazz 1.4SE CVT-7 (GE3 - made in China)

culzean

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Re: Which brake pads and discs in 2020 for GD Jazz?
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2020, 04:42:58 PM »
I have used Eicher discs and Brembo pads from Eurocarparts - used to get Honda pads but since they don't include all the shims and bolts anymore why bother buying Honda at higher price.....
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

sparky Paul

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Re: Which brake pads and discs in 2020 for GD Jazz?
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2020, 04:56:47 PM »
Mintex rear pads for mk 1 are MDB1616.

Everybody will have a different view as to the best to use, some are quite happy to use whatever their motor factor stocks at the time. I like Mintex simply because I've never had any problems with them. Braking and wear are both good, and I've never had a set of rotors wear unevenly or ridge.

If you want budget pads, the ones on eBay sold under the 'Omega' brand are surprisingly good, I think they are Eastern European... Turkey? I can understand why they wouldn't want to put that on the box.  ;)

bill888

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Re: Which brake pads and discs in 2020 for GD Jazz?
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2020, 06:24:09 PM »
I retrieved these screen captures from Pagid/Mintex website, brakebook.com, for front disc specs.

I'm just astonished by the price difference (before applying usual 40% discount) if they are indeed the exact same item.  ie. £20 for a Mintex disc vs £33 for Pagid after ECP discount.  It seems the Mintex products are not carried in local stores and has to be ordered.

update:

https://pagid.com/product-range/brake-discs/   quotes

A main feature of Pagid brake discs, over and above other brands, is the entire range is GEOMET® coated. This enables exemplary corrosion protection. The chrome-free protectant reduces the chances of rust build-up, a common brake disc affliction, and therefore improving stopping performance over time. The coating also provides a smarter appearance for longer, ideal for customers with alloy wheels.


Mintex started to expand their range of coated discs in 2018 supplied in red box.  I wonder are Mintex discs for Jazz of the coated variety?


Posted by Eurocarparts in 2013:  Mintex vs Pagid - possibly out of date?
https://uk-mkivs.net/topic/220770-mintex-vs-pagid-whats-better/


Apparently Brembo also make UV coated discs to resist corrosion for some cars. Sadly, the GD Jazz is not one of them after checking Brembo's online catalogue.   Brembo discs are supplied with replacement disc retaining screws.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2021, 03:48:17 AM by bill888 »
2007(57) Jazz 1.4SE CVT-7 (GE3 - made in China)

sparky Paul

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Re: Which brake pads and discs in 2020 for GD Jazz?
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2020, 08:47:37 PM »
Your Jazz may be built in China, but it's a UK spec car, not China spec.

Quote
A main feature of Pagid brake discs, over and above other brands, is the entire range is GEOMET® coated. This enables exemplary corrosion protection. The chrome-free protectant reduces the chances of rust build-up, a common brake disc affliction, and therefore improving stopping performance over time.

Sounds like a load of flannel to me. As soon as you start using the brakes, the coating will be the first thing to wear off?

How did we ever manage without it...

culzean

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Re: Which brake pads and discs in 2020 for GD Jazz?
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2020, 08:50:34 AM »
Your Jazz may be built in China, but it's a UK spec car, not China spec.

Quote
A main feature of Pagid brake discs, over and above other brands, is the entire range is GEOMET® coated. This enables exemplary corrosion protection. The chrome-free protectant reduces the chances of rust build-up, a common brake disc affliction, and therefore improving stopping performance over time.

Sounds like a load of flannel to me. As soon as you start using the brakes, the coating will be the first thing to wear off?

How did we ever manage without it...

+1  :-X

Agree, there is a reason steel or cast iron brake discs and drums used in brakes - 'friction'.....  cast iron better corrosion resistance than normal steel, and probably harder wearing, in fact if cast iron chilled during casting the surface will become very hard indeed due to high carbon content.

Any stainless steel or chrome plating will reduce friction,  and any coating will soon wear off..

The only part of a disc you can really paint or use coating on are the bits where the pads don't rub against,  this has a certain cosmetic benefit, especially with alloy wheels.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2020, 08:59:18 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

culzean

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Re: Which brake pads and discs in 2020 for GD Jazz?
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2020, 09:01:57 AM »
Basically use the cheapest discs and pads on rear wheels, the rear brakes don't do much anyway ( about 20% of total braking effort ) - as I said I used Eicher discs and Brembo pads from ECP on wifes Jazz and my Civic,  but will pay more for front brake discs and pads.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

bill888

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Re: Which brake pads and discs in 2020 for GD Jazz?
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2020, 04:29:14 PM »
Upon stripping, cleaning and reinstalling the servicable original front brake pads, I discovered one of the ears on one of the large shims which is fitted to the back of a pad has broken off.  Fortunately, the smaller silver outer shim holds it all in place.

As far as I can tell from Lings Honda website, Honda do sell the shim kit separately for both front and rear brakes.   The line drawings suggests shims are included with the brake pads, but I understand from earlier posts by culzean this is not true any more?

Cox Motors website don't seem to list the shim kit separately.  OEM front brake pad kit seems to include shims, but the rear brake pads don't include them if their photos are accurate of kit contents, unless someone knows differently.


2007(57) Jazz 1.4SE CVT-7 (GE3 - made in China)

culzean

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Re: Which brake pads and discs in 2020 for GD Jazz?
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2020, 04:52:01 PM »
Upon stripping, cleaning and reinstalling the servicable original front brake pads, I discovered one of the ears on one of the large shims which is fitted to the back of a pad has broken off.  Fortunately, the smaller silver outer shim holds it all in place.

As far as I can tell from Lings Honda website, Honda do sell the shim kit separately for both front and rear brakes.   The line drawings suggests shims are included with the brake pads, but I understand from earlier posts by culzean this is not true any more?

Cox Motors website don't seem to list the shim kit separately.  OEM front brake pad kit seems to include shims, but the rear brake pads don't include them if their photos are accurate of kit contents, unless someone knows differently.




most brake pad kits will supply anti squeal shims ( the ones on the rear of the pads ) but not the anti-rattle shims ( the ones that fit between caliper and the 'ears' of the pads - Honda used to supply new bolts pre-coated with threadlock ( item 17 on diagram ) and anti-rattle shims with pads ( item 16 on diagram ),  but no longer do. They still supply anti-squeal shims - see attached PDF,  everything inside yellow line is supplied by Cox with Honda Pads, including a sachet of hi-temp moly grease for pad ears.

The PDF show front pads,  but Joe Woods ( sales adviser  at Cox  email sales@coxmotorparts.co.uk    ) told me in email that same bits are in rear pad sets )  - IIRC even the Brembo pads I got from from ECP had anti-squeal shims and sachet of moly grease in them.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2020, 05:02:09 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Derkie54

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Re: Which brake pads and discs in 2020 for GD Jazz?
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2020, 05:28:09 PM »
Your Jazz may be built in China, but it's a UK spec car, not China spec.

Quote
A main feature of Pagid brake discs, over and above other brands, is the entire range is GEOMET® coated. This enables exemplary corrosion protection. The chrome-free protectant reduces the chances of rust build-up, a common brake disc affliction, and therefore improving stopping performance over time.

Sounds like a load of flannel to me. As soon as you start using the brakes, the coating will b.e the first thing to wear off?

How did we ever manage without it...

Surely it's a Japanese specified car
It will be alright in the end, if it's not alright then it's not the end !

Jocko

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Re: Which brake pads and discs in 2020 for GD Jazz?
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2020, 06:50:34 PM »
Surely it's a Japanese specified car
Japan (and other manufacturing nations) builds cars to different country spec. EU spec, US spec, UK spec, etc. The specification depends on the market for which the vehicle is destined.

bill888

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Re: Which brake pads and discs in 2020 for GD Jazz?
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2020, 07:13:49 PM »
most brake pad kits will supply anti squeal shims ( the ones on the rear of the pads ) but not the anti-rattle shims ( the ones that fit between caliper and the 'ears' of the pads

Thank you culzean for the reply.  I suppose it makes sense new 3rd party brake pads 'should' come with replacement anti-squeal shims.  I did note ECP sell anti-rattle shims made by Pagid.

I recall the Pagid front pads I bought for R56 mini cooper last year came with one bolt (not two) with threadlock on them for each hub, and a satchet of grease.  I don't recall the original BMW brake pads using 'detachable' anti-squeal shims which is why I was perhaps getting confused about replacement Honda pads and shims.


Added Feb 2021
After recently replacing a seized front caliper, decided time to replace the original factory fitted brake pads and the discs in future.

Photo of 8x M6 x 16mm, A4 Marine grade stainless steel countersunk screws sold by eBay seller 'stigfasteners' for £4.80 inc. delivery

I bought a cheap £15 vacuum bleeder kit off eBay 3 years ago thinking it would make it easier to change the brake fluid.  Total waste of money.  The job took what seemed like an eternity to complete. An issue is when you loosen the brake bleed screw, air can be drawn past the threads.  Similar poor experience when using it to bleed brakes on a 57 Mini Cooper.  The MIni has a clutch slave cylinder, and I somehow managed to suck the cylinder dry of fluid which led to total loss of clutch operation.  Fortunately, we found a youtube video describing how to reprime the clutch cylinder using a 3m length of hose and a foot pump.

This time round, I bought a Vizibleed one man bleeder kit from Halfords for 6 quid.   Similar to something I bought over 30 years ago the last time I bled brakes on a car.   Simple to use, and works brilliantly when I had to bleed the air out of newly fitted front brake calliper.  There is a white plastic strip with prepunched holes, which you are supposed to fit over the black hose, but I found the hole was too small.  The black hose is tight fit over the brake bleed nipple.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2021, 04:04:16 AM by bill888 »
2007(57) Jazz 1.4SE CVT-7 (GE3 - made in China)

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