Weird steering problem!

[culzean]

Last update: Problem finally solved now!

It turned out that the control unit was all good and working - the problem was the battery. After changing the battery the EPS light went off and everything worked perfectly fine.

Well, that was a long journey to get the EPS working, but thanks again for all your help and support.

Cheers,

The battery is a much underrated part of the car,  and not a part to buy cheap - whenever I fit a new one (will definitely be a Yuasa)  I write the date on it,  it reminds me but also may be useful to anyone else who buys the car.

[Jazzman79]

I to have this problem and cant fix it. Car starts 1st time every time, and all electrics work perfect including the headlights lights. But ,this EPS saga persists. Its indeed like driving a tank.

What made you change the battery was it going slightly flat ?

I am now wondering if i should take a gamble and try this as looking around the web some have spent up to 2k trying to fix this issue and even Honda have been no help.

[embee]

As a previous post says, the battery can be quite a critical item in how some vehicle electrical systems work in practice. Generally speaking cars have tended to become less sensitive more recently (due to the extra complication and therefore the need to be more robust to variation), but 15 or 20yrs ago quite a lot of systems could be a bit fussy, if they didn't see quite the voltage (value, range, stability, recovery after start etc) they were expecting it could upset how they worked.

Have a look at your battery, there will probably be a date code on it somewhere, very often a week/year 4 digit code etched into the casing, like 2612 or something (week 26 year 2012).
If it's more than a few years old it might well be worth getting something like https://www.tayna.co.uk/car-batteries/yuasa/ybx5054/ , (double check it's the right one for your car!!) even if it doesn't fix your problem you won't have "wasted" much in the big scheme of things. If it solves it, it'll be a cheap simple fix. Based on the earlier report of a fix it sounds promising.
A lot of folk on this forum have had very good service from Tayna, including me. Generally next day delivery.

[Jazzman79]

Battery's 2.5 years old with 5 year guarantee and never let me down, but I note your points. Once all other routes have been tried, and not much left to try, apart from new column which is a road i wont be going down then; will take a gamble on battery. Its a shame as i will be forced to scrap the car and spent quite a bit on it just to keep it road worthy not least, a new exhaust and cat due to scum bag thieves. Full service brakes and alarm .


Embee, found an old bill and turns out my battery is 47 months old has a 5 year guarantee.

Just to add the car has only done very few miles the last 12 months 5k tops, could that have a baring on things. But has always started 1st time even when standing for 2 weeks in cold weather ?

[Jazzman79]

Tried new battery still same problem ?

[billyausten]

Hi all. I've just bought an '08 Sport and have a stiff and non centering steering issue. I picked up on it on the test drive, even mentioned it to the dealer (a jazz and yaris specialist), he didn't seemed concerned. Other than it not centering as I expected it tracked fine and didn't pull to either side, so I chalked it down to a jazz quirk and bought it. Now reading this is see it is known and common. The drive home was 70 miles of predominantly fast A road, I got used to it pretty quickly, but if I can improve what is not a great situation (too little castor, not adjustsble) I'll give it a try. My Aerodeck is the absolute opposite as it has very strong centering and it is preferable.

I've initially checked alternator and battery, both fine. Jacking up the car and trying to move the steering by holding the road wheels revealed the rack to be monstrously still (Yes the steering lock was off!). Might the top strut bearings need replacing? Do people here have experience in this offering an improvement?

Thanks.

[bill888]

Other than it not centering as I expected

My Aerodeck is the absolute opposite as it has very strong centering and it is preferable.

Can you elaborate?

I've owned my 57 Jazz from new and steering is a bit heavy and does NOT self centre like other cars I've driven.  You do have to give it a helping hand when for example coming off roundabouts.   At motorway speeds, steering needs a bit more effort to nudge it to stay in lane.

A friend who owned an 06 Jazz (GD) from new used to complain about the lack of self centering.

I seem to recall my previous 1998 Civic 1.8VTI Aerodeck had lighter steering but don't quote me.  I had a 1994 Rover 214SLi and the steering was incredibly light - could almost turn it with finger and thumb when stationary.  Self centering on both and other cars were not an issue.


How old is the battery?   Fwiw, if it is more than 3 years old, consider changing it.  Varta A14 (Bosch S4018) is around £45 from Tayna off ebay. 

[Westy36]

The Jazz steering is something I have adapted to over time. I find holding the wheel lower down helps greatly. So instead of 'quarter to 3', a bit more 'twenty to 4'. Give it a try.

I had very stiff steering in a Talbot Horizon years ago. Lower ball joint was the culprit. Not sure how you would test for it though.

[billyausten]

Other than it not centering as I expected

My Aerodeck is the absolute opposite as it has very strong centering and it is preferable.

Can you elaborate?

I've owned my 57 Jazz from new and steering is a bit heavy and does NOT self centre like other cars I've driven.  You do have to give it a helping hand when for example coming off roundabouts.   At motorway speeds, steering needs a bit more effort to nudge it to stay in lane.

A friend who owned an 06 Jazz (GD) from new used to complain about the lack of self centering.

I seem to recall my previous 1998 Civic 1.8VTI Aerodeck had lighter steering but don't quote me.  I had a 1994 Rover 214SLi and the steering was incredibly light - could almost turn it with finger and thumb when stationary.  Self centering on both and other cars were not an issue.


How old is the battery?   Fwiw, if it is more than 3 years old, consider changing it.  Varta A14 (Bosch S4018) is around £45 from Tayna off ebay.

Thanks for the reply. The steering has no notchiness to it, but it just stays where you leave it. It seems like if you turn and let go, the wheel stays at that steering angle and the car keeps turning. It is light to manually return to centre. It just leant do it by itself. The Accord on the other hand (with good old hydraulic PAS)  centres quickly, I often just let the wheel unwind through my hand coming off roundabouts etc.

Its funny, 3 days ago if someone had described the fault, then said the battery may be to blame, I would have laughed at them. Having done some digging now I'm learning something new with EPS, and it makes sense. The current battery is halfords branded, but I have no indication of how old it is from service history etc. It measures ok with a DVM connected, but that is obviously a limited test as it has no real load connected. My gut says bearings, but I might try battery next. I would just like to get it to as good as it should be. I now see that it'll never be like the accord, which is ok tbh.

[culzean]

Other than it not centering as I expected

My Aerodeck is the absolute opposite as it has very strong centering and it is preferable.

Can you elaborate?

I've owned my 57 Jazz from new and steering is a bit heavy and does NOT self centre like other cars I've driven.  You do have to give it a helping hand when for example coming off roundabouts.   At motorway speeds, steering needs a bit more effort to nudge it to stay in lane.

A friend who owned an 06 Jazz (GD) from new used to complain about the lack of self centering.

I seem to recall my previous 1998 Civic 1.8VTI Aerodeck had lighter steering but don't quote me.  I had a 1994 Rover 214SLi and the steering was incredibly light - could almost turn it with finger and thumb when stationary.  Self centering on both and other cars were not an issue.


How old is the battery?   Fwiw, if it is more than 3 years old, consider changing it.  Varta A14 (Bosch S4018) is around £45 from Tayna off ebay.

Thanks for the reply. The steering has no notchiness to it, but it just stays where you leave it. It seems like if you turn and let go, the wheel stays at that steering angle and the car keeps turning. It is light to manually return to centre. It just leant do it by itself. The Accord on the other hand (with good old hydraulic PAS)  centres quickly, I often just let the wheel unwind through my hand coming off roundabouts etc.

Its funny, 3 days ago if someone had described the fault, then said the battery may be to blame, I would have laughed at them. Having done some digging now I'm learning something new with EPS, and it makes sense. The current battery is halfords branded, but I have no indication of how old it is from service history etc. It measures ok with a DVM connected, but that is obviously a limited test as it has no real load connected. My gut says bearings, but I might try battery next. I would just like to get it to as good as it should be. I now see that it'll never be like the accord, which is ok tbh.

Honda were the first company to introduce EPS, and IIRC the 2002-2008 Jazz had the earliest version of electric power steering fitted to a mass production car, and they had tried to balance amount of assistance against power drawn from battery, IIRC the Mk1 draws about 40 amps,  the MK2 had different steering geometry and current went up to 60 amps. Also bear in mind the Jazz has a turning circle that puts a London taxi to shame, very easy to park, and needs assistance to get back from full lock,  I never found the steering a problem on our Mk1's

https://www.autoserviceprofessional.com/articles/6024-honda-electric-power-steering

[bill888]

The steering has no notchiness to it, but it just stays where you leave it. It seems like if you turn and let go, the wheel stays at that steering angle and the car keeps turning. It is light to manually return to centre.

What you describe is normal (to me).

fwiw, I have always witnessed PAS issues (no assistance) when the battery reaches 3.5 years or more shortly after starting the engine and trying to use the steering.  Having said that, no PAS issues with the 3rd (Bosch) battery which was fine up to 4.5 years before I decided to replace it last autumn with a Varta A14 (same as Bosch S4018 but cheaper!) from Tayna ebay store as a preventative maintenance measure.  (Starter motor now spins quicker)

[Jazzman79]

Tried new battery still same problem ?

Replaced EPS control unit.

EPS light is now intermittent on some days and not others as is the EPS functionality ?

No loose connections on wiring.

Alternator ok.

Ideas anyone as this appears to be a very rare fault.90% have just replaced EPS control box and all good...not here though

[sparky Paul]

Ideas anyone as this appears to be a very rare fault.90% have just replaced EPS control box and all good...not here though

Did you reset the torque sensor zero after swapping the EPS module?

I would find out what error codes the EPS is throwing up, otherwise you are just stabbing in the dark.

[Kenneve]

I recall when I had the Mk2 Jazzes, they did require some assistance to straighten up, having turned a corner, also some correction required to keep in the lane on a motorway.

However, my Mk3 Jazz is totally different, no assistance required having turned a corner and far less tiring on a motorway. Very satisfied with the steering on this car, hopefully if I ever get round to a Mk4, it will be the same.