Which brake pads and discs in 2020 for GD Jazz?

[bill888]

Apologies for resurrecting this old thread.

Time has come to finally replace the front discs and pads on my 57 Jazz with 16k miles on the clock.

Following an issue with a seized front calliper, it resulted in the surface of the disc becoming severely pitted.  It may have cleaned itself up if I was able to put several hundred miles on the clock, but that is not likely to happen due to lockdown.

The original front pads were also wearing thin.  Last summer when I stripped, cleaned and refitted the 13 year old pads, the pads on the piston side were down to around 3mm, but the ones on the outward side were nearer 5mm.  In hindsight, I should have realised there was an issue with both front calipers, which led to one of them eventually seizing.

Ordered a new set of Pagid front brake discs and pads from Carparts4less. 

Discs are supplied in pairs in same box.  They are painted.  Photos below:

[bill888]

Photos of pads below.

It doesn't come with any shims or caliper slider bolts.

I will need to check the factory shims from the Honda OEM pads will fit the back of these new Pagid pads.

(Update:  If you plan to reuse all of the OEM shims, do NOT buy these Pagid front brake pads.  The black metal shims do not fit particularly well imho.  See later post)

I know one of the black shims on piston side is damaged (ear corroded and broke off) but fortunately it is held place by another smaller stainless steel shim.  May have to decide whether to order a new set or choose not to refit it.

Lings Honda lists them at a staggering £37 inc delivery !   

Link to post by Eddie Honda showing OEM brake pads and shims.  Photo reproduced below.
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=8360.msg43550#msg43550

[bill888]

Pagid front brake pads and discs fitted.  New Torx disc retaining screws fitted hand tight only - I didn't reuse the troublesome JIS screws which I personally found difficult to remove using a Vessel P3 Impacta screwdriver.  I had to use ball end of hammer trick to loosen the screws.

One disappointment of the Pagid brake pads is the metal backing plate has a large bevel on one side.  The ears on the original Honda black metal shims don't fit/grip the sides of the pad all that well if at all.  Only the brake grease was holding it all together until the caliper was fitted.

Looking at the poor pictures of the Eicher, Brembo, Pagid and Bosch front brake pads on the CP4less website, only the Pagids 'seem' to have a big bevel on them.   Should I consider binning the Pagid pads and getting Brembo instead?

I know one of the ears has broken off one of the black shims on piston side, and it possibly could slide out of position.  I'll have to keep an eye on it. The shim is visible through the little rectangular aperture on the front of the caliper.  I  may buy some new shims unless someone out there has an old set I can buy off them for less money. (Lings quotes £37 !  I haven't approached Cox motors yet)

Took car for quick spin and after a mile, noticed the stopping power was a lot better.  Even the ABS kicked in a few times on emergency stops.

Update:  I removed the one shim with the broken ear a few days later, when investigating a 'twang' noise.  It had nothing to do with the brakes.

Update 2:  After a few weeks use driving around town, the brakes are more sensitive/fierce in use.

Bremtech front brake calipers were fitted a few weeks earlier.  Supplied by Brakes International (They are a bit cheaper on eBay)
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=12753.msg93381#msg93381

[Westy36]

Good job! They always look nice when they're new. Be a shame to use them now!! 

I recetly fitted Pagid discs & pads to the read of our Jazz. I can't say I even noticed the bevel. I checked they were the same size as the Honda parts they were replacing, and they fitted just fine. 3000 miles later, and they still look in brilliant condition. If they work, I dont think I would worry.
 

[sparky Paul]

I bought a cheap £15 vacuum bleeder kit off eBay 3 years ago thinking it would make it easier to change the brake fluid.  Total waste of money.  The job took what seemed like an eternity to complete. An issue is when you loosen the brake bleed screw, air can be drawn past the threads.

Just a quick tip for anyone using any vacuum bleeder - I use one of those cheap vacuum bleeders with absolutely no problems. You should grease the nipple threads, or apply a smear of thick grease around the threads of the nipple. It's drawn into the threads, and then no air is sucked in by the vacuum.

The one-man kits have a one-way valve in them, and do work perfectly well. The biggest problem I have them is that you can't watch for any bubbles while you are at the other end pumping the pedal.

[bill888]

I recently fitted Pagid discs & pads to the rear of our Jazz. I can't say I even noticed the bevel

Your profile seems to suggest you own a 2013 Jazz?

[Westy36]

Your profile seems to suggest you own a 2013 Jazz?

Indeed I do. Just noticed you have a 2007. Maybe a different Pagid bevel profile then.

[bill888]

Hmm, noticed a new problem this afternoon. There was a rattling noise (sounds like a 'twang') coming from one corner of the car mainly when driving along without applying brakes I think.  It got progressively worse. 

I had a very quick look and only possible issue I could see is one of the shims may be touching one of the anti rattle clip that is fitted to the top of the carrier.  Coincidentally, it is the shim with a broken/missing ear on the piston side.   I refitted the caliper and rattle is far less obvious.

I'll take a closer look tomorrow.   I may remove that particular damaged shim but leave the stainless steel (anti squeal?) one fitted to see if the rattle stays away.

Or there is an issue with the 'anti-rattle' clip.....


These cheap Ridex front brake pads seem to come with anti squeal shims.  Looks like they do away with the Honda shims completely.
https://www.autodoc.co.uk/ridex/7999605

Half considering the idea of binning the 20 quid Pagid brake pads, and buying a genuine set of Honda pads at almost 60 quid which will come with new shims.


Also came across this old post by Droverunner who had difficulty installing Pagid front discs, pads and OEM shims in 2015, and had to remove 2 of 3 shims before they would fit.  He does not say if the calipers are OEM given the age of the car at the time.
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=7224.0

[bill888]

Mystery rattle/twang noise solved.

I forgot to remove the old coat hanger wire I used to suspend the caliper from the coil spring while fitting new disc....


I also took a closer look at the broken black shim.  It could slide out of position and touch the anti rattle clip.  Whether it would cause any issues, I do not know.  I didn't have any issues after refitting the broken shim and old Honda brake pads last summer.

In any case, I decided to remove the broken shim.  I have kept the smaller stainless steel shim between the piston and the back of the brake pad - it also seems to fit better on the back of the Pagid brake pad.


Brake fluid to change next which ought to be straightforward.

As for the rear brakes, I know the 13+ year old Honda brake pads are wearing evenly and in good condition and there is no pitting on the disc surface.   The rear calipers are working but may look at replacing pads/discs/calipers in the future.

Update (April 2022):
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=14584.0

[Westy36]

Mystery rattle/twang noise solved.

I forgot to remove the old coat hanger wire I used to suspend the caliper from the coil spring.....

Good spot. Could have saved a problem there.