Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - 2020 => Topic started by: Rambo on May 27, 2020, 09:38:59 PM
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Hi all,
I purchased a Honda Jazz (2015 - 65 plate) last year in June. It is a 1.3 SE which has basic start/stop plus lane warning and a few other bits.
We have seen the start/stop activate on a few occasions but for the last 3 months or so we have noticed when you pop in neutral and release the clutch, the start/stop symbol appears on the dash with a battery symbol next to it.
We generally make short trips since lockdown and was wondering if that was the problem. We have in recent weeks done a few 10-15 mile trips and still no start/stop.
I purchased a CTEK smart charger and connected it to the battery, out of the possible 8 hour charge it dropped quickly to 2 hours and then actually only took 30 mins of charge before saying done.
Straight after charge I took on a 10-15 mile duel carriageway trip. Parked up a mile near home, no start/stop. Stopped the engine, started again and continued to home, pulled up on driveway, still no start/stop and battery symbol appearing again next to the start/stop symbol.
Does anyone else have this issue? Any thoughts on what it could be? It is the original battery (I think LB505 is on the side of it). Otherwise no other markings. It is only 4-5 years old so I didn't suspect the battery but maybe it is.
I have read the manual and there are many checks that are done at start-up and during drive to determine if start/stop can be activated.
It is just an annoyance to me at the moment. The first Honda I have ever owned but currently very disappointed.
Thanks in advance.
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Yeah, it's pretty infuriating. Over the last 4 years of ownership, I've found the Stop-Start only works infrequently over the winter months, usually with the low-battery indication you describe. There are so many factors that will inhibit it that it's pretty well impossible to work out why it isn't working. I even took it back to the dealer when it was still under warranty and they confirmed it OK. However, as soon as I do a few long trips, or the weather warms up, it comes back.
Re the problem of low mileage during lockdown I was getting the same as you. I think the very slight battery drain from the alarm & immobiliser dropped the voltage just enough to fool the stop-start system, and the very short supermarket trips weren't enough to compensate. I've now invested in a solar battery maintainer ...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AA-Essentials-12V-Solar-Powered-Car-Battery-Charger-Solar-Panel-OBD-Version/233129991124?
Since then, no problems at all. The Stop-Start works as it should, even on short trips.
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We don't have S/S on the Jazz, but I've noticed on my car that the system is very fussy, and stops functioning long before the battery shows any difficulties actually starting the car.
It's probably the battery getting tired. I need to replace the battery on my Vaux for the same reason, but it's still starts up fine, and a new one is £150.
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Thanks folks for the replies. Very puzzling why Honda designed the start/stop system like this.
I believe it is the point where the car is started that checks are performed on the battery level, so if the battery is half charged, you start it and drive 300 miles it still won't activate start/stop until you stop the engine and re-start. I might be wrong on this but it's all a bit odd and frustrating.
We never have any difficulty in starting the car, just the stupid start/stop system.
ColinB - re the solar panel and probably a silly question but do you just leave the panel on the dashboard somewhere? I am unsure if this will cure the problem, as I mentioned I used a CTEK smart charger to fully charge the battery and went straight out afterwards yet it still shows battery symbol for start/stop.
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I believe it is the point where the car is started that checks are performed on the battery level, so if the battery is half charged, you start it and drive 300 miles it still won't activate start/stop until you stop the engine and re-start.
Others have suggested this, and there might be something in it. My personal experience has been that it’s more complicated though, I’ve had it sometimes work, and sometimes not, in the course of a single long trip.
ColinB - re the solar panel and probably a silly question but do you just leave the panel on the dashboard somewhere? I am unsure if this will cure the problem, as I mentioned I used a CTEK smart charger to fully charge the battery and went straight out afterwards yet it still shows battery symbol for start/stop.
Yes, I just leave it on the top of the dash plugged into the OBD socket whilst the car’s parked. The instructions do tell you to unplug it before starting the car. NB other vendors sell the same panel but with a cigarette lighter plug, which is pointless for the Jazz because that socket’s dead with the ignition off.
Regarding it not working after fully charging the battery, there seem to be some wrinkles about how the battery is reconnected after charging. There are other threads in this forum by people far more knowledgeable than me. Have a look at these for starters:
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=12005.15
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=10836.msg76288#msg76288
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as I mentioned I used a CTEK smart charger to fully charge the battery and went straight out afterwards yet it still shows battery symbol for start/stop.
There are threads on here with information about charging the stop-start battery ( posted by colinB above ), you cannot charge it by connecting clips to both battery terminals - this will bypass the current flow sensor fitted between negative terminal and body earth connection. You need to clip one lead of charger to battery positive and then the other lead to the bodywork of car. The stop-start battery works on coulomb counting method, which senses the current entering and leaving the battery and the electronic brain then decides if the battery is charged or not, it does not simply look a battery terminal voltages.
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_measure_state_of_charge
Many devices nowadays use coulomb counting to determine state of charge of battery - especially Li-Ion batteries as they are very sensitive to being over charged - even things like rechargeable electric toothbrushes and electric razors ( as I found out when I replaced the Li-Ion battery on my razor and it would not run despite battery being fully charged, I had to unsolder battery again and discharge it, refit it and let it recharge via the shaver circuitry - then it was fine ).
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Very interesting thank you all.
Culzean - I simply connected the charger leads to positive and negative battery terminals. I will try connecting positive charger lead to positive battery terminal and the negative charger lead to the bodywork.
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Very interesting thank you all.
Culzean - I simply connected the charger leads to positive and negative battery terminals. I will try connecting positive charger lead to positive battery terminal and the negative charger lead to the bodywork.
That may or may not work if the battery is already fully charged ( as I found with my electric razor ) as it will not see any charge going in - i don't know if you can discharge the stop start battery ( i could not do that with my razor without disconnecting it and manually discharging it - because the electronic had made their mind up the battery was not charged and would not let razor motor run). Unless the electronics is satisfied the battery is indeed fully charged because it has seen the current going into it it may just continue to say NO ( like the computer in 'Little Britain' show ).
Somewhere on this forum ( may be in links ColinB posted ) there is a page from Honda technical bulletin detailing how to charge stop-start by using the car body earth and not negative terminal.
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Somewhere on this forum ( may be in links ColinB posted ) there is a page from Honda technical bulletin detailing how to charge stop-start by using the car body earth and not negative terminal.
I would expect that if you connected your discharge load between live and body earth, you could discharge the battery sufficiently so that once alternator started to recharge the battery, the coulomb counter would be happy to do its stuff. Take it; it measures between the battery earth and vehicle earth?
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I followed the Honda bulletin and connected positive to positive and negative to the body cable side of the battery symbol sensor.
No notable difference and the CTEK charger reported the battery was ready in around 2 mins.
Measuring voltage with charger connected;
14.3
Measuring voltage with charger disconnected shortly after;
13.0
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I had the same problem with my VW Polo which I purchased at just over 12 months old. Trouble with buying used vehicles is you can not be sure how it was used and or how long the dealer has it in stock.
Anyway I took the car back to the dealer and they did a complete re - set of the ecu and it has been perfect ever since.
Not sure if Honda system is similar, our Jazz does not have stop/start
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Took on 10 mile trip, measured voltage on battery before going and after shortly removing the charger;
13.1
Start/stop not working and still the battery symbol shows.
Measured voltage on battery on returning and parking on driveway;
12.9
I can't see how the battery can be in any better shape yet start/stop complains and doesn't work.
Does the battery level need to be 13.2 volts or greater at all times for start/stop to work?
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I don't know, maybe we should read the workshop manual.
Maybe the system reads the SOC before startup, maybe it reads how much current flows during startup and how much current flows back during the following recharge and how long it takes.
I think there are some algorithms used by the ecu to understand both the SOC and the health of our battery, but I don't know them.
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The battery uses coulomb counting to assess state of charge not the terminal voltage. There is a hall effect current sensor in the negative battery lead and if you charge the battery with a charger on the battery terminals the electronics have not seen any charge go into the battery so the terminal voltage could be 14 volts and the electronics would not be happy. You are in a no win situation at present, the battery is fully charged but because the sensor was bypassed when you charged it the electronics did not see any charge going into it so will not let stop start system operate. I do not know whether there's is a reset that Honda dealer can do, but as I said a page from Honda technical bulletin was posted on this forum telling technicians to only charge stop start battery with negative charger lead clamped to car bodywork, not the negative battery terminal.. which bypasses current sensor.
The new battery on my shaver was fully charged when I fitted it, but the shaver only ran for one shave before red light came on and shaver would not run any more, because it was charged when it was outside shaver and electronic charge circuit had not seen any current go into battery, I had to disconnect battery from shaver and fully discharge it, then put the flat battery into shaver and charge it so that the electronics saw how much went in ( and that is exactly how much it would loose back out before saying battery was flat - it had nothing to do with terminal voltage of battery ) coulomb counting is now the preferred way to control battery charge as it stops overcharging and prevents fully discharging battery. Terminal voltage is only a rough guide to state of charge of a battery, coulomb counting is much more accurate. My shaver ran for full two weeks after I did the discharge and charge bit.
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The battery uses coulomb counting to assess state of charge not the terminal voltage.
There is a hall effect current sensor in the negative battery lead and if you charge the battery with a charger on the battery terminals the electronics have not seen any charge go into the battery so the terminal voltage could be 14 volts and the electronics would not be happy. You are in a no win situation at present, the battery is fully charged but because the sensor was bypassed when you charged it the electronics did not see any charge going into it so will not let stop start system operate. I do not know whether there's is a reset that Honda dealer can do, but as I said a page from Honda technical bulletin was posted on this forum telling technicians to only charge stop start battery with negative charger lead clamped to car bodywork, not the negative battery terminal.. which bypasses current sensor.
Smart external chargers use voltage to understand the SOC, some professional devices measure the voltage before and after appliyng a heavy resistance for some seconds used to simulate a startup; if the gap is big, it doesn't matter if the initial voltage was high, this means the battery is out of order.
Our Hondas use coulomb counting for sure, but I'm pretty sure this is not the only parameter used; maybe there are some equations as "after X current sent to the battery the voltage must raise not less that Y in Z minutes; if Y is lower and/or Z is too long, the battery is not OK". Or "after a restart, the gap between initial and final voltage must be lower than R" and so on. Coulomb counting cannot be the only parameter, otherwise the car would go on showing the alert even after a new battery.
And there is this strange behavoiur: starting my car in the morning, I see that initially S&S works fine but after 5-6 times it stops working, with the battery alert on my dash. I was thinking this was due to many current drags, but I noticed this happens also after starting and running for 40-50kms in a highway, without S&S and when the battery should be well charged (no restarts and many minutes with high rpms), and strangely I see the battery alert at the first stop. So why battery conditions are good after five minutes from startup (S&S working) but they are not good after 30 minutes in a highway? Maybe the system reads a good voltage on startup, but it does not count enough recharging current?
I'm tempted to leave the battery leads disconnectet for a whole night, just to see if this could "erase" the coulomb counting memory, just to try...
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All really useful info chaps many thanks. I am in two minds whether to ignore this problem and see how things go on longer trips or whether to look into fitting a new battery. To me this seems unnecessary as I believe my battery is in good health and it is the Honda system causing problems.
Perhaps a diagnostic of some sort somewhere but this will cost, unless I can get an OBD 2 reader that reads Honda codes from somewhere.
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Smart external chargers use voltage to understand the SOC, some professional devices measure the voltage before and after applying a heavy resistance for some seconds used to simulate a startup; if the gap is big, it doesn't matter if the initial voltage was high, this means the battery is out of order.
External chargers have to use terminal voltage to assess state of charge because they are not permanently connected to battery and have no idea how much charge is already in battery, but coulomb counting is much more precise and is used in high end and medical equipment and especially with lithium ion batteries where terminal voltage is not always representative of SOC. Problem with coulomb counting is the battery has to be in a known state of charge when installed and all current in and out has to pass through a sensor.
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To me the battery is in enough good conditions to go on starting up the car in the morning, but non enough good to continuosly start and restart the engine with the S&S.
So I think I will change it before next winter, I don't know if the new will be a OEM Yuasa or a cheaper Banner EFB.
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I have no idea what battery I have, presumably it is OEM.
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External chargers have to use terminal voltage to assess state of charge because they are not permanently connected to battery and have no idea how much charge is already in battery, but coulomb counting is much more precise and is used in high end and medical equipment and especially with lithium ion batteries where terminal voltage is not always representative of SOC. Problem with coulomb counting is the battery has to be in a known state of charge when installed and all current in and out has to pass through a sensor.
Coulomb counting has a problem, it does not recognize the battery self discharge; since our lead acid batteries have a higher self discharge rate than li-ion and ni-mhd batteries (very low), the Jazz system cannot consider the battery as a "fully sealed tank" believing that everything seen going inside will stay there until it will be seen coming out. So there must be some parameter correcting this "problem".
Other problem, the hall effect sensor on the -lead cannot be so precise to detect very low currents, less than milliamps flowing through it. I work with hall sensors, and very low currents need very sensitive (and expensive) sensors. Mass production devices as cars and laptops must use cheap components, otherwise their price would explode. This is why also laptops and smartphones, after some charge/discharge cycles, must reset and reconfigure the battery level indicator: each second the coulomb counter loses some electrons, and the sum becomes big after hundred of charging cycles.
So cars must have a mix between coulomb counting, voltage, usage and I suppose a good software considering also temperature, because the sensor on the battery - lead has also a thermocouple.
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I had a long discussion with the workshop manager at my dealer about the temperamental stop-start system (my HR-V behaves the same as the Mk. 3 Jazz). Basically, the ECU has a long check list of issues to be satisfied before it is willing for the stop-start to work because, Honda, understandably, doesn't want the vehicle to be hesitant about restarting once the engine has stopped.
While I didn't see this checklist (if one exists) it's very probable that an initial battery check is done when the car is first started. Perhaps it looks at the minimum voltage in this situation and this isn't rechecked until the engine is turned off and on again. On one occasion, I've driven two hours with stop-start not working until the restart after a break and on another occasion the stop-start didn't work when I left home but I stopped a couple of miles down the road to refuel after which the stop-start was happy.
Something to consider trying is to disconnect the battery, wait a minute and reconnect it (this doesn't kill the audio system in the Mk. 3 as the code is in the ECU). The ECU then has to assume that the battery has been changed and reset the charge monitoring system and should figure out that what it thinks is a half-charged battery is actually fully charged.
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On the other hand John, I have had situations where I've started a journey and the stop/start hasn't operated even after 30 or so miles. Without stopping it has then kicked in. That said it seems to take so many variables into consideration including ambient temperature, operating temperature, whether the climate control is on etc etc.
My view, with no engineering knowledge, is the system is quite conservative and won't take chances. I'm OK with this.
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I might try the battery disconnect later then assuming it won't cause me any more problems :D
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Just an observation ref stop start etc
We have had our present Jazz for 3 Years plus now and start stop has operated a handful of times during this period, so I am hoping that nothing changes,To upset the apple cart so to speak
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I have sorted the problem!!!!! :D
This is what I needed to do;
1. Disconnect negative terminal on battery and leave for 2 mins.
2. Reconnect negative terminal to battery.
3. Hook up CTEK charger as before with the negative connected to the body cable side of the battery symbol sensor.
4. This time, instead of reporting done fairly quickly it took about 1 hour of charge.
I disconnected the charger and the next day took the car out. Start/stop working perfectly.
Thanks for all of the advice. It looks like the ECU needed a reset by disconnecting the battery.
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I have sorted the problem!!!!! :D
This is what I needed to do;
1. Disconnect negative terminal on battery and leave for 2 mins.
2. Reconnect negative terminal to battery.
3. Hook up CTEK charger as before with the negative connected to the body cable side of the battery symbol sensor.
4. This time, instead of reporting done fairly quickly it took about 1 hour of charge.
I disconnected the charger and the next day took the car out. Start/stop working perfectly.
Thanks for all of the advice. It looks like the ECU needed a reset by disconnecting the battery.
Good.
Let us know if the S&S will go on working in the future.
My s&s now works fine, after a winter where many times I had the battery alert even after a right recharge.
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I have sorted the problem!!!!! :D
This is what I needed to do;
1. Disconnect negative terminal on battery and leave for 2 mins.
2. Reconnect negative terminal to battery.
3. Hook up CTEK charger as before with the negative connected to the body cable side of the battery symbol sensor.
4. This time, instead of reporting done fairly quickly it took about 1 hour of charge.
I disconnected the charger and the next day took the car out. Start/stop working perfectly.
Thanks for all of the advice. It looks like the ECU needed a reset by disconnecting the battery.
A USA Honda Fit Forum has a method to reset the ECU without disconnecting the battery as follows :-
When you see the Auto Stop/Battery disabled symbol
1. With the engine running, pull the bonnet release catch - dashboard indicates that the bonnet has been released.
2. Turn the engine off.
3. Exit the car and open and close the bonnet.
Auto stop will then work normally again. I have tried this procedure and strangely seems to work.
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Personally it would be a bonus to me if I had auto stop and it never worked :o
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I have sorted the problem!!!!! :D
This is what I needed to do;
1. Disconnect negative terminal on battery and leave for 2 mins.
2. Reconnect negative terminal to battery.
3. Hook up CTEK charger as before with the negative connected to the body cable side of the battery symbol sensor.
4. This time, instead of reporting done fairly quickly it took about 1 hour of charge.
I disconnected the charger and the next day took the car out. Start/stop working perfectly.
Thanks for all of the advice. It looks like the ECU needed a reset by disconnecting the battery.
A USA Honda Fit Forum has a method to reset the ECU without disconnecting the battery as follows :-
When you see the Auto Stop/Battery disabled symbol
1. With the engine running, pull the bonnet release catch - dashboard indicates that the bonnet has been released.
2. Turn the engine off.
3. Exit the car and open and close the bonnet.
Auto stop will then work normally again. I have tried this procedure and strangely seems to work.
I tried this couple of times today but it didnt seem to work for me. Ill try again tomorrow.
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A USA Honda Fit Forum has a method to reset the ECU without disconnecting the battery as follows :-
When you see the Auto Stop/Battery ...
EUDM Jazz and USDM Fit have most parts in common, but also several differences: airbags (USDM are bigger and safer), bumper subframes and some ECU and software, so it's better try this method but no surprise if it does not work.
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I have sorted the problem!!!!! :D
This is what I needed to do;
1. Disconnect negative terminal on battery and leave for 2 mins.
2. Reconnect negative terminal to battery.
3. Hook up CTEK charger as before with the negative connected to the body cable side of the battery symbol sensor.
4. This time, instead of reporting done fairly quickly it took about 1 hour of charge.
I disconnected the charger and the next day took the car out. Start/stop working perfectly.
Thanks for all of the advice. It looks like the ECU needed a reset by disconnecting the battery.
A USA Honda Fit Forum has a method to reset the ECU without disconnecting the battery as follows :-
When you see the Auto Stop/Battery disabled symbol
1. With the engine running, pull the bonnet release catch - dashboard indicates that the bonnet has been released.
2. Turn the engine off.
3. Exit the car and open and close the bonnet.
Auto stop will then work normally again. I have tried this procedure and strangely seems to work.
Today I tried to track down using Goggle the original forum posts as inferred above but cannot find them. But have managed to find a link to a similar discussion for the Honda Odyssey.
https://www.odyclub.com/threads/auto-idle-stop-potential-fix-procedure.337977/ (https://www.odyclub.com/threads/auto-idle-stop-potential-fix-procedure.337977/)
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Mine is temperamental sometimes starts to work quickly sometimes after driving all day. I noticed when I leave fan running on “2” all the time it helps to bring it on sooner. Using other power-consuming features (lights or accessories) don’t help such as not using any power at all doesn’t help either. Very strange. Anyone has similar experience and what can I put it down to? Can’t be a coincidence as tested it for months there is a link between fan running and kicking stop start in
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Mine is temperamental sometimes starts to work quickly sometimes after driving all day. I noticed when I leave fan running on “2” all the time it helps to bring it on sooner. Using other power-consuming features (lights or accessories) don’t help such as not using any power at all doesn’t help either. Very strange. Anyone has similar experience and what can I put it down to? Can’t be a coincidence as tested it for months there is a link between fan running and kicking stop start in
Your profile says you have a 2004 Jazz; never had one of those so can’t really comment on how stop/start works there. But on a Mk3 with manual a/c I’ve never noticed the fan strength setting having any affect, but then I very rarely have it set to anything other than “1” (too noisy!). However, the position of the dial that directs the air (to feet, face, screen, etc) is critical. If you have it set to screen, the car assumes you’re trying to demist the screen and won’t activate the stop/start. The multi-function display shows the a/c symbol as the inhibiting condition irrespective of whether the a/c is running or not. The handbook is wrong here, it states that having the a/c running inhibits the stop/start but thats incorrect, it’s the air-direction setting that’s important: stop/start works fine with the a/c running.
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Mk1 doesn't have Stop/Start.
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Mk1 doesn't have Stop/Start.
IIRC stop-start came in with MK3 2015-->
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I have both 2004 and 2016 sorry for confusion. It’s regardless of A/C being on or off, fan seems to help. I will play around with different directions on the dial to see if it makes a difference
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I’m glad you ave found a solution to your problem.
Unless someone has already mentioned it the stop start won’t work with the heater either on hottest or coldest (ac) position. I rang the Honda dealer when my wife’s Jazz wouldn’t s/s, he told me this, and he was right, for my her at least.
Just a note on connecting the -ive charger lead to the bodywork, I would be interested (I’m that dull) in what difference that makes. Since the -ive on the battery is attached to the body anyway.
Your Ctek charger is fine, it just puts current and over voltage across your battery, the same as an alternator. Just make sure it’s in the right mode, ie agm (gel battery) and maintenance mode.
Cheers
Cheers
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Just a note on connecting the -ive charger lead to the bodywork, I would be interested (I’m that dull) in what difference that makes. Since the -ive on the battery is attached to the body anyway.
If you connect the charger directly to the battery then you bypass the battery monitoring system which counts how much energy flows in and out of the battery to determine the state of charge. The system then gets confused about the state of charge and shuts down the stop/start system.
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Just a note on connecting the -ive charger lead to the bodywork, I would be interested (I’m that dull) in what difference that makes. Since the -ive on the battery is attached to the body anyway.
If you connect the charger directly to the battery then you bypass the battery monitoring system which counts how much energy flows in and out of the battery to determine the state of charge. The system then gets confused about the state of charge and shuts down the stop/start system.
+1
the charge / current flow sensor is near the battery negative terminal and is connected in the circuit between terminal and earth point.
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If you connect the charger directly to the battery then you bypass the battery monitoring system which counts how much energy flows in and out of the battery to determine the state of charge. The system then gets confused about the state of charge and shuts down the stop/start system.
Connecting the charger to the end of the earth strap where it connects to the battery sensor achieves the same objective and may be more convenient.
Regarding the heating / ventilation system and its effect on the stop/start, pressing the green Eco button increases the allowable difference between set and actual cabin temperature before the system decides to keep the engine running for cabin heating / cooling. I think that's all the Eco setting does.
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My start/stop system has not worked since the Autumn lockdown, without any explanatory symbol, probably because of the colder weather and lack of travel. However it is now working again after a 150 mile journey. I'm relieved, as I thought I might soon need to replace the 5 year-old battery. I’m hoping it will last another two years, when I expect to change the car.
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My start/stop system has not worked since the Autumn lockdown, without any explanatory symbol, probably because of the colder weather and lack of travel. However it is now working again after a 150 mile journey. I'm relieved, as I thought I might soon need to replace the 5 year-old battery. I’m hoping it will last another two years, when I expect to change the car.
Same for me: it stopped working in autumn and now started again, sometimes it works, sometimes not.
Yesterday I got the Honda Diagnostic System, next days I will check engine and battery parameters.
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I've had my 2018 cvt ex-navi almost a year and the stop start has never worked. I have never asked Honda to look as not working is the way I like it :D.
I don't do mega miles these days so my battery is usually below what S/S requires. I ran my last Skoda Fabia years without S/S ever working.
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Yeah, it's pretty infuriating. Over the last 4 years of ownership, I've found the Stop-Start only works infrequently over the winter months, usually with the low-battery indication you describe. There are so many factors that will inhibit it that it's pretty well impossible to work out why it isn't working. I even took it back to the dealer when it was still under warranty and they confirmed it OK. However, as soon as I do a few long trips, or the weather warms up, it comes back.
Re the problem of low mileage during lockdown I was getting the same as you. I think the very slight battery drain from the alarm & immobiliser dropped the voltage just enough to fool the stop-start system, and the very short supermarket trips weren't enough to compensate. I've now invested in a solar battery maintainer ...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AA-Essentials-12V-Solar-Powered-Car-Battery-Charger-Solar-Panel-OBD-Version/233129991124?
Since then, no problems at all. The Stop-Start works as it should, even on short trips.
Yes we also have used these on our Jazz vehicles for the last 18 months or so now, it has solved the problem of SS plus other curiosities.
Would recommend without any doubt.
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The stop start on my Civic worked for a few months when the car was new though to be honest I began to switch the system off every time I got in the car as with the lock down I am only doing short runs and did not want to drain the battery, however it has now ceased to operate and I get a warning every time I start the car which saves me having to switch it off.
Will hopefully be doing a couple of 200/300 mile runs in the next couple of months to see great grandchildren that we have never been able to see yet, so will be checking to see if it starts to function again.
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Just got back from a 450 mile round trip to see relations as in my post above, as expected the stop/start has started working again, looks like the battery level has to be high for it work and once it drops below a certain level it stops working in order not to drain the battery to much.
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Just got back from a 450 mile round trip to see relations as in my post above, as expected the stop/start has started working again, looks like the battery level has to be high for it work and once it drops below a certain level it stops working in order not to drain the battery to much.
Have you considered a voltmeter which plugs into the 12V socket? From Ebay:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/373619141490?hash=item56fd6fab72:g:PL4AAOSwqZ9gzFRX
The voltmeter will give a measure of the state of charge of the 12V battery and possibly a few clues as to the threshold when start/stop closes down
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Just saw this thread on the forum - same thing has occurred on my 69 plate Jazz which I picked up a couple of months ago. I did lots of web research and have read more threads than I would care to mention.
At first I found the whole thing frustrating and a bit worrying, but I soon discovered that this is a common issue for the Honda Jazz.
I'm no mechanic;- all I know is that sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't - there's no rhyme nor reason as to why, when or how. However the car drives nicely and returns about 56mpg according to the computer-fib-o-meter (which I don't believe, but from my mileage & receipt records is nonetheless considerably better than my previous 2012 diesel Mini Cooper :D). I also took some solace from Scotty Kilmer saying on his YouTube channel that the start-stop function isn't necessarily a good thing in any event in terms of additional wear & tear.
Happy motoring folks!
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It's also common on the Civic.
A few have posted that turning on the ignition for a few secs before cranking the starter gives more time for SS to collect the battery state.
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A few have posted that turning on the ignition for a few secs before cranking the starter gives more time for SS to collect the battery state.
Can't turn on the ignition first in the later Civic it is keyless push button start.
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A few have posted that turning on the ignition for a few secs before cranking the starter gives more time for SS to collect the battery state.
Can't turn on the ignition first in the later Civic it is keyless push button start.
You can: push the start button WITHOUT pressing the clutch, twice.
Anyway, I think this could be unuseful: in these days i noticed that S&S can start working after startup but stopping after 4-5 restarts in the same trip, with battery symbol on the dash, so battery status is continuolsy checked.
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Had my new to me Jazz about 3 months and stop/start has never kicked in even after I’ve fully charged the battery with my Ctek.
Suits me fine not having to switch it off!
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A few have posted that turning on the ignition for a few secs before cranking the starter gives more time for SS to collect the battery state.
Can't turn on the ignition first in the later Civic it is keyless push button start.
WITHOUT pressing the clutch, twice.
Have not got a clutch. :D
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Posted in wrong thread
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A few have posted that turning on the ignition for a few secs before cranking the starter gives more time for SS to collect the battery state.
Can't turn on the ignition first in the later Civic it is keyless push button start.
WITHOUT pressing the clutch, twice.
Have not got a clutch. :D
Ok, lever in P and don't press the brake.
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I have just fitted a SAE lead to the battery, negative lead installed to the bolt before the black module for monitoring current. The eyelets are quite large and the position of the positive battery clamp re snagging it led me to fit it to the adjacent bolt on the clamp. Does this sound acceptable? I suspect this bolt is there to facilitate the connection of more than one lead from the terminal.
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I have just fitted a SAE lead to the battery, negative lead installed to the bolt before the black module for monitoring current. The eyelets are quite large and the position of the positive battery clamp re snagging it led me to fit it to the adjacent bolt on the clamp. Does this sound acceptable? I suspect this bolt is there to facilitate the connection of more than one lead from the terminal.
Perfect! 8)
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I have stop start and it is a total pain. When I bought the car Jazz 1.3 I was advised to switch OFF the stop start. Soon get into the way of doing this and life is much better.
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Hi
I have read through many, but far from all post on this s&s, and can chip in that I have same problem. I have had a 2017 mk3 Jazz for 1.5 years now and got problems with s&s working randomly all the time. Approx 30% it stops fine, at red light 70% it does not stop, even when all conditions should be ok.
After some trials, the authorized dealer+service center replaced the battery to a new one and had it checked and tested based on Honda guidance many times, but never really solved it.
I drive across Denmark every week, and even when I drive 360km in one go, it still does not always stop when I reach a red light close to home or in the other end.
I'm sorry to say that I'm an experienced electronic engineer and have tried to understand this and get experience of when it works and not work, but after 1.5year it still does not reveal any consistency other than not stopping when engine is cold, which is according to expectation. Warm engine, warm/cold weather, long/short drives.
I have now just accepted that it has it's own life, and forget it. Naturally there is a sensible reaction based on some sensor facts and/or timing, but it is apparently just not easy to identify.
Not the end of the world, but naturally somewhat annoying when you want to reduce your carbon footprint and save some expensive drops of fuel. Jazz S&S RIP ;-)
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These things I have noticed to prevent start-stop acting:
- battery voltage
- cold engine
- electric power consumption e.g. seat heathers, rear window heater, headlights on, fan on max speed
- ventilation directed to windshield
- driver's seat belt not engaged
- after reversing
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There’s a comprehensive list of inhibiting factors in the handbook. Not heard of (or experienced) “after reversing” and I’m not going to try driving without the seatbelt!
Diagnosing it isn’t helped by the incorrect indications on the display, for example:
1. When ventilation is directed to the screen, you get the A/C symbol as the reason for it not working. In fact stop-start works perfectly well with the A/C if the vent is directed elsewhere (that's manual A/C, not climate control).
2. In cold weather I get the low battery indication as the reason, which is rubbish because I know the battery and charging systems are in good condition. There is a criterion of “low battery internal temperature” which I think the car interprets as low voltage so that’s what the display shows.
I find it works perfectly well through most of the year, but hardly at all from about now through to March or April. From that I’m guessing that the biggest factor is ambient temperature, even in typically mild UK winter conditions, which can of course affect the car in all kinds of ways.
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I attach the full list of parameters which can upset the stop-start system (it says HR-V (Mk 2) but is the same for the Mk 3 Jazz.
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I attach the full list of parameters which can upset the stop-start system (it says HR-V (Mk 2) but is the same for the Mk 3 Jazz.
Just love some of those. Under the heading "Climate Control System", you find such gems as:
"Outside air temperature is
or less."
(A number would be helpful!) and
"When the climate control unit ruins the
indoor amenity. "
(Errr ... what?)
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That's very interesting listing!
It looks like my assumption "after reversing" was actually because of another criteria: "Does not exceed 5 km/h after ... engine restart from idle stop."
Seat belt seems to be on the list. I don't bother buckling after stopping on mailbox when I drive to my yard. And idle stop never stops the engine when stopping the car at final parking place.
I would say that my car won't restart when brake pedal is released, at least if the parking brake is on.
If anybody has whatever reason to fool the system and prevent engine from starting after idle stop, it can be done by engaging a gear (manual transmission) without pressing the clutch pedal. I've used it sometimes on drive-in queue.
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Recently had the same come up on mine. Battery bit cleared now but have you noticed in the owners manual that it will not work if you have the heater set to screen demist? Quite sensible really because you don't to be pulling away with the screen fogged up!!