possible starter motor problem

[guest582]

Hi. I had a problem trying to start my 1.4 SE Jazz (2009, 25000 miles) this morning. It sounded as if the starter motor would not engage. There was plenty of life in the battery. I left the car for a couple of hours and tried again and this time the car started OK. It ran a little rough for a second or two but I put this down to some excess fuel being in the system from my earlier attempts to start it. After that it seemed perfectly OK.. The only thing I have done differently recently is  fill the tank with 97 grade petrol. It has now run about three quarters of the tank full on this (although I have not noticed any improvement in mpg).
Would it be wise for me to take the car in to the dealer for a check up do you think? It was only serviced a month ago.

Tony

[Pine]

I should wait until it happens again, it may have been just a one off occasion.  The problem with intermittent faults is that when you take the car to the garage and the car starts normally they cannot diagnose the where the problem is.

[chrisc]

My auto-electrician friend says:

1 - Connections to solenoid
2 - Connections to starter motor
3 - Dodgy solenoid or (more likely he thinks) starter motor

This is not a particularly Honda problem, but affects all cars.  Loose connections are the most common faults he attends to.

[guest3793]

The previous time the car was started was it just moved for a small distance? Sort of if you were letting another car of the drive or moved it out of the garage from cleaning?
This can cause the engine to flood (with fuel) the next time it's started. The sound is very strange as if the starter is turning and not engaging, in fact it is engaging but the engine suffers "borewash" which causes a loss os compression.
You say it ran a little ruff once it started so it sounds like flooded.
Sometimes it will clear itself other times it wont and needs a little help.
The Honda Jazz doesn't suffer with any starter motor related problems.

The other problem if the battery is low then you might get a rapid clicking noise. How do you know the battery had plenty of life? You can't judge battery state of charge just by putting the lights on.

[culzean]

You can't judge battery state of charge just by putting the lights on.

it sometime helps if you put the headlights on and try to start the car,  if the lights go REALLY dim (or even out) it shows either bad battery or bad connections  - after trying to start the car also quickly put your palms on the battery posts - if one is very warm or hot it will mean a bad connection (especially on positive post could be corrosion between post and connector).  If starter is spinning and not turning engine over it means pre-engage solenoid (pushes motor pinion into engagement with flywheel teeth) may be playing up - although I think power is not supplied to motor until pinion fully forward).  A clicking sound every time you turn the key means that solenoid is getting power,  but not enough to push forward properly and certainly no enough to turn engine over.  If you don't use the car very often and battery is never charged properly it may have sulphated up the plates,  and you are gonna need a new battery.    97 octane shouldn't make car hard to start - I wouldn't count the car having just been serviced as a re-assurance, they probably just cleaned the outside and dusted the inside and sent it straight back to you (sometimes I think they may not even lift the bonnet).

[guest3793]

Totally agree with you that if you put headlights on and then crank it might be possible to see how much charge there is in the battery. But the majority of people broken down tell us the battery is ok because the lights work. They don't realise the massive difference in current required to turn an engine as opposed to running lights.
What we get normally these days is that people suspect the starter motor when it is just a discharched battery. The starter chatters because there is enough power to engage the starter motor but then the voltage drops so the starter releases and is does this rapidly and you get the rapid clicking.
A heavily sulphated  (or deeply discharged) battery will normally recover but may need a bench charge.
The Jazz doesn't suffer with connection problems or starter related problems.
The other problem we get with all petrol cars is flooding, this happens if the engine is started when cold and only run for a short period, maybe and minute or two, then turned off and left until much later or the next day.
The Jazz is one of the best for reliability. Any breakdown is always down to human error, although some of the early Jazz batteries and exhausts are starting to fail.

[nowster]

As someone who has inadvertently left an interior light on in my Jazz overnight then found (on a cold day) the starter motor didn't work, requiring a jump start, my sympathies.

One problem with removing the battery to perform a "bench charge" is that various settings are lost in the engine management unit, including the service indicator and some "learned" engine settings.

[guest3991]

I had a similar problem this morning, where I wanted to start my Jazz and it wouldn't. I had the battery replaced about a year ago. It sounds as if there is enough power but it doesn't want to engage the engine.

[guest582]

Thanks for the replies.  The one from spanners was helpful because the previous time I had used the car I had switched it on to move it for cleaning and only moved it a few feet. The possibility of this flooding the engine is something I will be aware of in future. I had the battery tested today and it turned out to be "unserviceable" at 65% so I guess I need a new battery anyway.

[olduser1]

If you have a charger I would leave the battery on overnight on low, retest after 12 hrs. If an original Honda battery it should come up to full charge - see inspection indicator.

[guest3793]

tonyf, it will certainly be the case it was flooded as I said it is a very common problem with all petrol cars. I think you can rest easy knowing that it wasn't a fault with the car.
I would also agree with olduser1 about putting the battery on a charger. I would be very surprised if there is a fault with the battery, I wouldn't worry about it unless it gives any problems. I certainly wouldn't buy a new battery yet.
Although if it is starting ok I think you would be fine. 

[olduser1]

Foot note - Over the past 40 years the majority of battery's I've tested when presented with " it wont go " have been only 70% charged, mainly due to short runs + heavy use of electrical components. I have had to explain that a couple of hours on a borrowed charger will not bring the unit up to full charge , far better a trickle charge over a weekend or a couple of evenings.

[guest3793]

Foot note - Over the past 40 years the majority of battery's I've tested when present with " it wont go " have been only 70% charged, mainly due to short runs + heavy use of electrical components. I have had to explain that a couple of hours on a borrowed charger will not bring the unit up to full charge , far better a trickle charge over a weekend or a couple of evenings.

Totally agree, no point charging a battery for a couple of hours on a 4amp charger. 24 hours minimum.