Author Topic: Electric cars  (Read 160538 times)

Kremmen

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2160 on: May 03, 2021, 02:49:19 PM »
Let's be careful out there!

TiJazz

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2161 on: May 03, 2021, 05:10:40 PM »
Yes, half the point of EV is to reduce local emissions and improve air quality in our cities and towns...

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2162 on: May 03, 2021, 05:12:22 PM »
and improve air quality in our cities and towns...
It certainly does - especially if you import your electricity from France.

JimSh

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2163 on: May 03, 2021, 05:24:58 PM »
« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 05:38:13 PM by JimSh »

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2164 on: May 03, 2021, 05:50:02 PM »
Hurrah,  3 cheers - the wind is back on UK grid after its 3 week holiday - now we can stop burning gas like it was going out of fashion.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

E27006

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2165 on: May 03, 2021, 05:50:19 PM »


it is not a fair like-for-like comparison between a power station and a fossil fuelled car. In an Oilwell to Wheel analysis, the crude may have travelled thousands of miles by sea, the crude will have been processed in an energy-hungry  refinery and transported to a petrol station, the car will do a poor job of neutralising the exhaust gases using the cut-price DPF and Nox trap.
The power station and distribution network will be carefully managed for energy efficiency and there will be extensive treatment systems in the chimney of the station to tackle  polluting gases

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2166 on: May 04, 2021, 05:41:06 PM »
This afternoon I stumbled across a very useful video by a firm of electricians in Cambridge. They went through a list of things that needed to be in place with your home electrics before an installation of an EV could take place. To cut a long story short, our set up would need a couple of upgrades at least one of which would involve the taking out of a kitchen cupboard.

The other issue I have is the 10 metre distance between our consumer unit and where the charger would be mounted.

None of these issues are insuperable in themselves but the £350 grant wouldn't even come close to covering the installation of a home charger.

Why do I raise this? Well I think people need to do their homework BEFORE buying an EV - the installation of a charger may not be straightforward especially in a post war but not very modern property like ours. Had a brief discussion with my electrician son-in-law and he thought a minimum of £1500 would be required and more likely £2,000.

This had me thinking, given my age and the small annual mileage I do, getting an EV might be something I never actually do or, indeed, need to do.

Hard on the heels of that I listened to a podcast with Robert Llewellyn talking to Fiona Howarth, a big wig at Octopus energy. Work is already ongoing on a vehicle to grid infrastructure (only a small project at present). The basic idea is that, to avoid pressure on the grid at busy times, you plug your car in and your domestic energy derives from whatever charge is in the battery. The car gets charged at night whilst demands on the grid are minimal. Octopus already have an "agile" tariff which selects the cheapest time to charge your car.

We live in interesting times. I won't be part of the EV revolution but it's going to be a huge change.

John Ratsey

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2167 on: May 04, 2021, 06:32:58 PM »
Hard on the heels of that I listened to a podcast with Robert Llewellyn talking to Fiona Howarth, a big wig at Octopus energy. Work is already ongoing on a vehicle to grid infrastructure (only a small project at present). The basic idea is that, to avoid pressure on the grid at busy times, you plug your car in and your domestic energy derives from whatever charge is in the battery. The car gets charged at night whilst demands on the grid are minimal. Octopus already have an "agile" tariff which selects the cheapest time to charge your car.
This is definitely workable. I have a Tesla Powerwall battery (13 kWh capacity) which, during the winter half of the year when there isn't much sunshine, charges from the mains between 00.30 and 04.30 using the Octopus Go EV charging tariff at 5p/kWh. The battery can then supply our power needs for the rest of the time at an effective cost of 6p/kWh after allowing for power conversion losses.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2168 on: May 04, 2021, 07:11:33 PM »

Why do I raise this? Well I think people need to do their homework BEFORE buying an EV - the installation of a charger may not be straightforward especially in a post war but not very modern property like ours. Had a brief discussion with my electrician son-in-law and he thought a minimum of £1500 would be required and more likely £2,000.

This had me thinking, given my age and the small annual mileage I do, getting an EV might be something I never actually do or, indeed, need to do.


You need to do a 'payback period' check on expensive items really.   Double glazing,  how much energy does it save and how much does it cost, if you already have double glazing then fitting newer stuff will not save much, if you have single glazing then replacing it with double glazing will save you a bit, but payback is still 20 years + by which time you will probably need it replacing.  For an 'all electric house'  they reckon around £20,000 on a ground source heatpump (fairly reliable up to 4 to 5 KW of heat for every KW consumed, pretty independent of ambient temperature but heavily dependent on the ground under your house, some areas not suitable ) and up to £10,000 for airsource heatpump which give 1.5 to 3 KW of heat for every 1KW consumed - at 5deg C ambient 1.5x and at 30degC + ambient 3x - so the less you need the heat the more you get, if you have got reverse cycle at least you can cool the house I guess  :o  So payback periods are pretty long,  and then there is maintenance to pay for.  Makes a 92% efficient gas boiler at less than £2000 and 5 to 6 pence a KWh seem like a snip.

Just like you, a BEV would save me peanuts with the mileage I do nowadays, and the upfront costs are way too much.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2021, 07:15:22 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2169 on: May 04, 2021, 07:27:48 PM »
Currently looking at a Nissan Leaf near me.



The battery is on lease £82/month or £2150 to buy. £5995.

TiJazz

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2170 on: May 04, 2021, 11:19:46 PM »
Battery lease LEAFs shouldnít exist any more - didnít Nissan buy them out?

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2171 on: May 05, 2021, 08:31:59 AM »
didnít Nissan buy them out?
Obviously not this one.

hemming

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2172 on: May 05, 2021, 09:37:39 AM »
Jocko - with regular 70 miles each way trips envisaged in the future I would be very interested to hear the results of your research and conclusions, particularly on range.

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2173 on: May 05, 2021, 10:02:01 AM »
I think these older Leafs are excellent second cars or even first cars if you never do more than, say, a 50 mile round trip. My issue has always been around 6 trips a year into charge point deserts.

I would charge one of these on a 3 pin plug using what they call the "granny" cable if I bought one given the extensive  upgrade required to my domestic electrics. In the video I quote above the electrician gave a decent explanation as to why you should go for a dedicated charge point which was all to do with the load you put on the system given that charging an electric car from a domestic socket is the equivalent of having an electric fire on. That would be easily manageable by only charging when other power hungry appliances were off. This would obviously be sub optimal for someone who did anything other than my very modest annual mileage.

But I'll be sticking with ICE or possibly hybrid for the rest of my driving career. A pity because I do actually fancy an EV as an interesting toy!

On EV batteries more generally there is a firm in Cheltenham that will upgrade the battery in older Leafs to 40 kwh ones from the new model. The batteries are source from cars that have been written off. £8,500 all in!

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #2174 on: May 05, 2021, 10:39:30 AM »
Jocko - with regular 70 miles each way trips envisaged in the future I would be very interested to hear the results of your research and conclusions, particularly on range.
When I buy my EV I will be doing about 10 miles per week with the occasional 17-mile round trip to my step-daughters. Most I will ever do is a 70-mile round trip a couple of times each summer.

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