Electric cars

[culzean]

At £6 per gallon and 50mpg - equivalent cost of petrol

£82 lease fee = 14 gallons of petrol which is 700 miles per month or 8400 miles per year.

£2150 to buy= 360 gallons  = 18,000 miles total

Added to this is cost of electricity still required to charge the battery,  about 6 pence per mile at normal rates per KWh.

A petrol car doing 50mpg is about 11.5 pence per mile, so 'saving' of 5  to 6 pence per mile.... with diesel the 'savings' are even lee impressive,  maybe 3 pence per mile.  This ignores the existence of a dedicated home charger ( £2000 installation cost less £400 grant ) or a 'power wall' ( £10,000 + solar panel cost ).

[Jocko]

The cost doesn't come into it. I want to drive electric. If I like the Leaf, I'll buy the lease out. The house is getting rewired so I will have a dedicated external socket installed and use the Granny cable. I'll only be driving every third or fourth day.

[Jocko]

We will probably be installing solar panels anyway.

[madasafish]

I looked briefly at smart meters - particularly gas meters - and EV charging.

Our house was built in the 1820s. The external walls are local millstone grit with flint intrusions and vary between 60cm and 1.25meters wide in parts. Drilling holes in them requires lost of power, a BIG drill and flint destroys bits..so installing new electrical or gas systems is very costly and time consuming.

We have two consumer units: one for the main house and one for the extension/garage. Both would need replacing and rewiring for EV charging apart from a 13A one.

Our gas meter is in a stone box on an outside wall and would need a new electricity supply for a smart meter - drilling through at least one external wall and one internal.

I would estimate putting a new charger for an EV in our garage would probably cost between £3 to £5k .
(And a gas smart meter £2-£3k).

It is not going to happen.

I suspect many other owners of old houses may face the same problems.

[Jocko]

No supply is required for an external gas meter. The smart meter has a long-life battery and in our case communicates wirelessly with the unit attached to the consumer unit. My problem is the electricity smart meter doesn't communicate with British Gas though the gas meter does! It is currently PAYG but will need to be changed when we move in. Hopefully, that will sort the current issue.

[peteo48]

The cost doesn't come into it. I want to drive electric. If I like the Leaf, I'll buy the lease out. The house is getting rewired so I will have a dedicated external socket installed and use the Granny cable. I'll only be driving every third or fourth day.

A LEAF 24 or 30 with decent battery health will suit you down to the ground. The other thing is you'll be able to follow a sympathetic charging regime (between 20 and 80% with only occasional rapid charge).

[E27006]

At £6 per gallon and 50mpg - equivalent cost of petrol

£82 lease fee = 14 gallons of petrol which is 700 miles per month or 8400 miles per year.

£2150 to buy= 360 gallons  = 18,000 miles total

Added to this is cost of electricity still required to charge the battery,  about 6 pence per mile at normal rates per KWh.

A petrol car doing 50mpg is about 11.5 pence per mile, so 'saving' of 5  to 6 pence per mile.... with diesel the 'savings' are even lee impressive,  maybe 3 pence per mile.  This ignores the existence of a dedicated home charger ( £2000 installation cost less £400 grant ) or a 'power wall' ( £10,000 + solar panel cost ).

In addition is  the lease option payment  an insurance policy for the batteries in case of degradation or outright failure?
Where the lease contract protects  the driver from  a possibly  expensive bill.
If the battery is purchased and owned outright, is there  warranty coverage on the batteries?
Or does the owner have to fund repairs to the batteries?

[Jocko]

The idea of the lease is they replace the battery if it drops below a certain level.

[TiJazz]

This has never happened.

Buy a non-Flex Leaf. There’s a reason Flex ones don’t really exist anymore.

[John Ratsey]

Our gas meter is in a stone box on an outside wall and would need a new electricity supply for a smart meter - drilling through at least one external wall and one internal.

As already noted, the gas meter uses a long-life battery. However, I suspect the problem will be that the signal from the gas meter won't get through a stone wall to the electricity meter.

[Jocko]

Buy a non-Flex Leaf. There’s a reason Flex ones don’t really exist anymore.

The car I am looking at is a beautiful example, low miles, full battery bars and a private sale. Buying out the lease would still make it considerably cheaper than a similar vehicle, without a battery lease, from a trader. Hence my giving it consideration.

[springswood]

Looks like a good buy to me, especially buying the batteries outright. I'd be tempted myself if I could fit all the dog I need into it, sadly not. Like you I'd be happy to pay to go electric. I might have to wait until that MG estate filters through to the second hand market.

[madasafish]

Our gas meter is in a stone box on an outside wall and would need a new electricity supply for a smart meter - drilling through at least one external wall and one internal.

As already noted, the gas meter uses a long-life battery. However, I suspect the problem will be that the signal from the gas meter won't get through a stone wall to the electricity meter.

We have problems with internal wifi - if we don't leave doors open signal gets lost very quickly and we have to use boosters - or leave every house door open . 

To get to the electricity meter from the gas meter = two outside walls (house has been extended a bit over the centuries) - so your supposition is likely correct!

[culzean]

We have problems with internal wifi - if we don't leave doors open signal gets lost very quickly and we have to use boosters - or leave every house door open . 

To get to the electricity meter from the gas meter = two outside walls (house has been extended a bit over the centuries) - so your supposition is likely correct!

It is amazing how many things can block wi-fi   

https://www.signalbooster.com/blogs/news/how-much-which-building-materials-block-cellular-wifi-signals

I was experimenting with a microwave ( doppler radar ) type sensor - it can detect movement on the other side of wooden doors and even brick walls also through a ceiling into the room below - but when I tried it through our double glazed windows - even with the sensor right next to the window inside the house I could not get it to detect movement outside the glass,  seems many modern window glasses are coated with a very thin ( microns ) metallic layer to stop infra red heat escaping the house.  Liquids also readily absorb radio waves, so if walls are damp that will increase their attenuation of signals.

[peteo48]

Buy a non-Flex Leaf. There’s a reason Flex ones don’t really exist anymore.

The car I am looking at is a beautiful example, low miles, full battery bars and a private sale. Buying out the lease would still make it considerably cheaper than a similar vehicle, without a battery lease, from a trader. Hence my giving it consideration.

Yes - a good plan. I'm actually jealous because I want to go electric but it's these darn 6 or so trips a year that make it problematic to get an EV alongside the electrical modifications needed. My pal's 2014 Leaf still has all 12 bars although he reckons he might lose a bar soon. He will have 85% state of health on a seven year old car. He's seriously considering getting the 40 kwh upgrade. £8,500 seems a lot but he reckons it would see him out! I did ask him what range he was getting now and he reckons 75 to 80 in the summer down to 60 to 65 in the winter. He has got 100 miles on a charge when the car was newer using hypermiling techniques.