Electric cars

[Jocko]

Didn't realise that the Scottish Government will give an interest free loan of up to £35,000, repayable over 6 years, for buying an EV, subject to certain conditions (you don't already have an EV, you are buying a new car, etc).

[John Ratsey]

I'm not in Scotland so not eligible for that offer but I'm slowly convincing myself that my next set of wheels will be an EV with a nominal range of 300 miles ONO (ie enough for 200 miles in adverse conditions in winter with the battery no longer at its prime). While a PHEV would probably better fit my usage pattern it would need to have a setting for me to tell it when I'm only doing a local trip so only use the battery.

[peteo48]

I'm not in Scotland so not eligible for that offer but I'm slowly convincing myself that my next set of wheels will be an EV with a nominal range of 300 miles ONO (ie enough for 200 miles in adverse conditions in winter with the battery no longer at its prime). While a PHEV would probably better fit my usage pattern it would need to have a setting for me to tell it when I'm only doing a local trip so only use the battery.

I assumed (although I don't actually know) that a PHEV would use battery only until it went flat at which point the ICE would kick in.

[ColinB]

I'm not in Scotland so not eligible for that offer but I'm slowly convincing myself that my next set of wheels will be an EV with a nominal range of 300 miles ONO (ie enough for 200 miles in adverse conditions in winter with the battery no longer at its prime). While a PHEV would probably better fit my usage pattern it would need to have a setting for me to tell it when I'm only doing a local trip so only use the battery.

I assumed (although I don't actually know) that a PHEV would use battery only until it went flat at which point the ICE would kick in.

My assumption (also completely uneducated) is that there is an infinite number of ways designers could choose to combine the power outputs of two prime movers (combustion and electric) in a hybrid car. At one extreme you could have a car that is basically an EV but also carries a generator to charge the battery when it runs down; at the other you could have an ICE car that also has a battery and motor to provide a power boost when you need it. Both are hybrids but work very differently. Manufacturers will choose their own optimum designs somewhere between those extremes to suit their perceptions of what the customer wants, and it’s highly likely they’ll all be different.

[Jocko]

From Wiki:

Modes of operation
A plug-in hybrid operates in charge-depleting and charge-sustaining modes. Combinations of these two modes are termed blended mode or mixed-mode. These vehicles can be designed to drive for an extended range in all-electric mode, either at low speeds only or at all speeds. These modes manage the vehicle's battery discharge strategy, and their use has a direct effect on the size and type of battery required:[104]

Charge-depleting mode allows a fully charged PHEV to operate exclusively (or depending on the vehicle, almost exclusively, except during hard acceleration) on electric power until its battery state of charge is depleted to a predetermined level, at which time the vehicle's internal combustion engine or fuel cell will be engaged. This period is the vehicle's all-electric range. This is the only mode that a battery electric vehicle can operate in, hence their limited range.[105]

Mixed mode describes a trip using a combination of multiple modes. For example, a car may begin a trip in low speed charge-depleting mode, then enter onto a freeway and operate in blended mode. The driver might exit the freeway and drive without the internal combustion engine until all-electric range is exhausted. The vehicle can revert to a charge sustaining-mode until the final destination is reached. This contrasts with a charge-depleting trip which would be driven within the limits of a PHEV's all-electric range.

[sparky Paul]

New Polarplus charging point popped up in local town centre car park, two spaces marked out in green. Contactless card payment. There are a few others around town, but this is the most overt - you wouldn't find the others without zapmap.

[Jocko]

I was over to the south of Edinburgh today and I saw 4 new 69 plate cars. Three of them were electric.
Two Nissan Leafs (should that be Leaves?) and a Tesla Model S.
There are a lot of Teslas in the Edinburgh area. I suppose it is an affluent area, with many rich business men able to afford the £1000/month lease or the £80+K purchase price.

[sparky Paul]

Cheap second car?

[culzean]

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/299166-cops-abandon-high-speed-chase-when-their-tesla-battery-runs-down

This is why I am surprised emergency services even consider using BEV in their present state of evolution.

[Jocko]

You cannot blame the car because the kn*bheads put it out on the road without first charging it. ICE Police cars have run out of petrol before. And Police helicopters regularly have to call off a pursuit when they run out of fuel.

[culzean]

You cannot blame the car because the kn*bheads put it out on the road without first charging it. ICE Police cars have run out of petrol before. And Police helicopters regularly have to call off a pursuit when they run out of fuel.

Truth is though that you can fill up an ICE car in a few minutes if fuel low, not so with a BEV - and considering the number of ICE emergency vehicles compared to BEV  then some of them are bound to run out of fuel now and then.  Emergency vehicles are used 24/7/365 with little time for charging.   To be of any use ( other than a box ticking exercise ) they need at least removeable battery packs like fork lift trucks get in industry,  then they can charge one while using another.  Another thing is that a Police ICE vehicle will get at least 500 miles per tank, compared with <200 for BEV ( as proven in real life driving ).

[Jocko]

Yes, I agree with all that. Someday they will work as we all want. Meantime it may require two to do the job of one. One working, one on charge. It is still the way transport is heading, like it or not.

[culzean]

Yes, I agree with all that. Someday they will work as we all want. Meantime it may require two to do the job of one. One working, one on charge. It is still the way transport is heading, like it or not.

Surely to have one working and one charging as a 'spare' completely negates the much vaunted economic benefits of BEV, not to mention needing a lot more space, and even  the best case scenario of having twice as many batteries than vehicles is using up precious rare metal resources and proliferating noxious metal available to pollute the planet.  Given the present very high cost of BEV compared to their ICE equivalent and the cost of supplying enough power to the grid and charging points in accessible places is beginning to make the whole thing seem costly and unworkable.

[Jocko]

The prices are coming down all the time and they reckon the price if a BEV will fall below that of an equivalent ICE in two years time. Battery and charging technology is improving as well. Governments around the world are starting to favour electric vehicles, and, despite the difficulties, early adopters are sticking with them and enjoying the experience.
Dundee is the BEV capitol of Scotland, and a feature on the Scottish News last week was speaking to a Dundee taxi firm which now has 140 BEVs in their fleet. The owner drives a Tesla. Electric vehicles are the future. We can welcome it or be dragged kicking or screaming into it. There is no avoiding it.

[culzean]

https://www.whatcar.com/news/electric-vehicle-charging-%E2%80%93-what-does-it-really-cost/n16833

Beware that charging costs are rising, ( as we all knew they would as more BEV were in use and people were committed ) as well as variable charging costs from charge point companies I reckon the government has a 'price per mile' running cost for vehicles in their database that is pretty much fixed,  and as BEV get more common they will levy tax on charging just like they do on fuel now - otherwise road pricing will ensure that cars are not too cheap to run - the last few years have been a honeymoon period for early adopters,  from here on in 'the only way is up'....