Author Topic: Drive belt change  (Read 7677 times)

guest6449

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Drive belt change
« on: November 22, 2016, 04:52:58 PM »
Hi ppl. Hope someone can help. Bought a honda jazz 02 plate 1.4. Just to get my son learning to drive in. Starting it every cpl days til his 17th birthday. One day battery light stayed on after starting. Noticed drive belt snapped. Got new belt, fitted it. Car wont turn over. Checked and dbl checked belt route. All ok. Checked tension, all ok. Took belt back off. Tried to start car.... turned n started as soon as I turned the key. Re fitted belt. Same problem. Wont turn over. Took off idler. No issues. Refitted it all and gently took up tension of belt again. No where near  where it should be and car fails to turn over. Please help

culzean

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Re: Drive belt change
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2016, 05:10:09 PM »
Does everything that the belt drives rotate easily by hand when belt is not fitted,  seems that something may have seized and when the belt has any tension at all on it the extra drag is  preventing the starter motor from turning the engine over.  Water pump, alternator,  aircon compressor (unless the aircon is switched on the magnetic clutch should not be active to link pulley to compressor anyway,  so make sure aircon is off ).

There must be a reason the belt snapped,  and maybe that reason is still there.
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guest6449

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Re: Drive belt change
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2016, 05:15:44 PM »
Everything turns by hand freely. Will check that ac is off and let you know. Belt was old and badly cracked, but as you say something probably caused it to snap. Ok started car with belt pretty loose. Car started but squeeled badly obviously. No ac light on and when pushed button still no light on. Think i will be taking belt off again and trying everything by hand again. Think it might be the ac?

Ok took belt off again and only the centre part of the ac is turning. Not the ribbed part for the belt. Not normal right?

culzean

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Re: Drive belt change
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2016, 05:27:44 PM »
Normally the belt pulley (the ribbed bit) should turn freely when ignition is off or aircon not turned on because magnetic clutch is not engaged to lock the pulley to the compressor,  sounds as though the pulley bearing may have seized - TG will be on in a minute with an exploded diagram of compressor complete with part numbers LOL

If aircon light didn't come on the system may be out of gas,  in which case compressor clutch will not be energised anyway because the system gas pressure switch will not let it operate.  You will easily hear the click as compressor clutch cuts in,  both engine and aircon fan will run as well.

The belts are very strong and will still drive OK when cracked, but if they are badly frayed and have lost width (less contact area|) they may begin to complain and squeal, get hot and finally break.

How many miles has the car done ?
« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 05:35:56 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

guest6449

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Re: Drive belt change
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2016, 05:37:14 PM »
A rather large 160,000 Miles

culzean

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Re: Drive belt change
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2016, 05:51:33 PM »
Ok took belt off again and only the centre part of the ac is turning. Not the ribbed part for the belt. Not normal right?

the pulley should rotate freely on a larger bearing,  the inner part that you are turning is directly connected to compressor (and has its own bearings) ,  when the electrical clutch is energised the rotating pulley is locked to the compressor shaft,  if the pulley will not rotate freely the main bearing is undoubtedly seized.


This isn't a Jazz,  but general principle is the same

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVQxRXUUUb4


160,000 miles is nothing for a Honda - barely run in yet
« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 05:57:11 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

guest6449

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Re: Drive belt change
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2016, 06:06:11 PM »
The car runs as sweet as a nut. Needs a clutch but not complaining for £250. Hoping its the release bearing thats making the noise and not the first motiob shaft bearing though.
 Well my pulley spins nothing like the one in the video. Question is....is it repairable or would i better trying to get another pump. Used on ebay £25??

culzean

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Re: Drive belt change
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2016, 07:36:31 PM »
How hard is it to turn the aircon pulley ? Does the engine try and turn over with belt fitted (watch the belt, does it move at all ? )  even just a twitch ?
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

guest6449

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Re: Drive belt change
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2016, 08:21:29 PM »
Pulley wont budge a mm. By hand. But when belt fitted it turns just and no more. Makes it sound as if the car has a flat battery. Which i know it hasnt as a new one got fitted today

culzean

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Re: Drive belt change
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2016, 10:11:14 PM »
Pulley wont budge a mm. By hand. But when belt fitted it turns just and no more. Makes it sound as if the car has a flat battery. Which i know it hasnt as a new one got fitted today

Looks like main pulley bearing seized, bearing itself probably won't cost much - just hope it hasn't gouged the pulley bore by outer race spinning or the fixed mounting boss by inner race spinning.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

culzean

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Re: Drive belt change
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2016, 10:39:47 PM »
Hoping its the release bearing thats making the noise and not the first motiob shaft bearing though.

The normal gearbox motion shaft bearing noise on Jazz is a whine in lower gears when car is moving - the bearing in question only makes noise when under load when thrust gets applied to it by the helical cut gears.  A clutch bearing will make a noise at standstill when clutch is turning but gear teeth are not meshing - noise may change when you press clutch pedal down and apply force to the release bearing.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 09:30:52 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

guest1372

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Re: Drive belt change
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2016, 09:27:26 AM »
A couple of points about the a/c compressor and the system in general, the ribbed pulley should spin freely with just a finger to spin it, and the a/c switch blue light doesn't indicate if the a/c is working or not - only that the switch is pressed.  The a/c compressor clutch is triggered off a relay, but it should be off without power or most definitely with the fan & a/c turned off.  There is the faintest chance that the relay has stuck closed keeping the a/c compressor clutch engaged but you can eliminate this possibility by pulling out the relay from the under bonnet fusebox.  All the relays are the same so you can swap them around and use the horn relay position as a testbed if you wish.

If the a/c had run out of gas/oil then the compressor could well of died, but there is a pressure switch right next to it that should isolate it when the pressure gets too low.  You can reach both items through the drivers side (RHD) wheel arch by removing the liner, when the a/c has gas the pressure switch is closed and open circuit when the gas has escaped.

I have read of repairing the a/c compressor clutch but that seems like a lot of effort.  Swapping in a breakers yard compressor is probably a good idea, but getting the a/c recommissioned might be a waste of money - it's £50 for the gas/oil to be recharged, and there may be a leak or fault elsewhere in the system.  You should get this done by a licensed a/c specialist who can recover any remaing gas in order to protect the environment, but if there is no gas in it to start with then it may be a different mater....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=honda+jazz+compressor   £30 posted
--
TG

culzean

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Re: Drive belt change
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2016, 09:38:26 AM »
There is the faintest chance that the relay has stuck closed keeping the a/c compressor clutch engaged but you can eliminate this possibility by pulling out the relay from the under bonnet fusebox.  All the relays are the same so you can swap them around and use the horn relay position as a testbed if you wish.

OP said centre of pulley (shaft connected to compressor) can be moved by hand,  which means that clutch is not engaged.

I wouldn't try to repair the compressor part by hand but the pulley bearing will probably only cost a fiver - depends if OP wants to keep the aircon working or not.  If system has been without gas for a while bad things happen inside  (corrosion,  seals etc.) and it could be costly,  but at £30 worth a punt.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

guest6449

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Re: Drive belt change
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2016, 11:00:15 AM »
Thank you for all you advice guys. Not really to bothered if ac doesnt worked. Was really just bought as a car for my son to learn to drive in and pass his test. Was told by previous owner that the ac hasnt been cold for ages so guess there is probably a leak somewhere. Wont be going to the effort to get it re gased. So looks like ebay will be getting a visit. Again many thanks for all your advice. Will let you know how i get on when part arrives.

guest6449

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Re: Drive belt change
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2016, 11:38:29 AM »
Ooooh here's a thought. Could i by-pass the pulley with a shorter belt?

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