Author Topic: Is this belt wearing off?  (Read 1418 times)

mj1sjc

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Is this belt wearing off?
« on: December 11, 2021, 12:48:39 PM »
Hello!
Ive just noticed a small nylon thread has popped out from this belt and is this means I need to change it asap or can wait for some time?
What is this belt called please, and also how much will it cost roughly in the UK including the labour to change it please? Is it a 1hr labour job or 2hrs etc?

Thanks!

embee

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Re: Is this belt wearing off?
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2021, 01:31:05 PM »
I'm assuming that's the drive belt for what is usually called the "front end auxiliaries", i.e. the various bits of machinery on the end of the engine opposite to where the drive goes out (traditionally/historically the "front" of the engine in a rear wheel drive car). It drives the air-con compressor, alternator, coolant pump etc. plus the odd tensioner/idler pulley.

The belts are made as a long tube, an inner rubber layer with the ribs to run on the pulleys, then a layer of wound cords (aramid/polyester/kevlar etc depending on spec and manufacturer), and an outer thin layer of polymer to seal and protect the cords running over tensioner pulleys etc. The cords do all the work transferring drive.

The tube is cut into belts, different widths and numbers of ribs for different applications. This inevitably ends up with the cords being cut, and occasionally you can get ends showing, which is what I suspect you can see there. If the overall belt is in good condition it is not necessarily anything to worry about, you can trim off the loose ends to make sure they don't snag and damage the belt. If the belt is getting relatively old anyway it might be worth considering having it changed, age and miles combine to decide whether it needs changing.

The belts themselves can be got from reputable motor factors like https://www.eurocarparts.com/ or https://www.gsfcarparts.com/ (take careful note of discount codes to use), lots of others to choose from, and are often just a relatively few ££ (maybe £10 or 15 at most usually, depending on width/length).

The cost of replacing depends on how much work is involved and ease of access, some cars can be tricky, needing engine mounts to be removed etc or going in via the inner wheel arch. I don't know what it's like on your car, others will advise.

UKjim

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Re: Is this belt wearing off?
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2021, 03:08:31 PM »
For what they cost I would change it without hesitation, about £12 for the belt and 30 minutes labour.


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culzean

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Re: Is this belt wearing off?
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2021, 03:32:57 PM »
It is a bit of a PITA to replace a drive belt,  the belt on MK1 is tensioned via the pivoting alternator and the tension needs to be checked on the longest run, which is at the very bottom of the belt if the car has aircon (on upper run if no aircon .  May be possible with no aircon to replace belt from in engine bay because only a couple of pulleys and they are high up, but with aircon need to take off drivers side road wheel and remove some of the plastic from under wheel arch.  Make a careful note of the routing of the belt around the pulleys, also note different belt lengths for with and without aircon.  As Embee says, just trim the cords and keep an eye on it.. it does  not look as though it is cracking which is a good sign.

Attached is PDF showing belt routing and tensioning details for both with and without aircon

Haynes give the belt deflection as 4.5 to 6mm for a new belt and 7.5 to 10mm for a used belt.  It recommends setting deflection for new belt, running engine for 5 to 10 minutes and then resetting to used belt deflection. 

https://www.eurocarparts.com/honda-drive-belt

Youtube video of procedure to replace belt,  I must admit I found job a lot easier by removing the wheel and some of the plastic under the side of wheel arch to give much better access, especially to the lower alternator picot bolt.  Some people replace idler pulley at same time as the belt as they can give problems, idler pulley only applies to cars fitted with aircon.  Some people find they need 2 to 3 hours work, should be shorter than that if car does not have aircon, which complicates things. Save water pump pulley till last when refitting the belt as it runs on smooth side of belt so easier to get belt onto pulley.


MK2 Jazz ( 2008 onwards ) there is a spring loaded idler pulley to set tension,  the spring loaded lever on the pulley has to be sprung back to remove tension to allow belt removal  - there is a special tool ( not expensive ) or you can use a long 19mm spanner.


[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: December 11, 2021, 04:14:32 PM by culzean »
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Jocko

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Re: Is this belt wearing off?
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2021, 04:21:57 PM »
A genuine Honda belt will set you back £55 but you can get them from £7.99 on eBay. My son-in-law took 10 minutes to change mine on my 2006 1.2S.

culzean

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Re: Is this belt wearing off?
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2021, 04:39:38 PM »
A genuine Honda belt will set you back £55 but you can get them from £7.99 on eBay. My son-in-law took 10 minutes to change mine on my 2006 1.2S.

Much easier without aircon...
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mj1sjc

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Re: Is this belt wearing off?
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2021, 09:26:33 AM »
Thanks for your reply!

Ive noticed there are two different size belts on Euro carparts. Which one do you think is the right one for my car pls? Its a 1.4 auto Jazz 2006 with A/C

It is a bit of a PITA to replace a drive belt,  the belt on MK1 is tensioned via the pivoting alternator and the tension needs to be checked on the longest run, which is at the very bottom of the belt if the car has aircon (on upper run if no aircon .  May be possible with no aircon to replace belt from in engine bay because only a couple of pulleys and they are high up, but with aircon need to take off drivers side road wheel and remove some of the plastic from under wheel arch.  Make a careful note of the routing of the belt around the pulleys, also note different belt lengths for with and without aircon.  As Embee says, just trim the cords and keep an eye on it.. it does  not look as though it is cracking which is a good sign.

Attached is PDF showing belt routing and tensioning details for both with and without aircon

Haynes give the belt deflection as 4.5 to 6mm for a new belt and 7.5 to 10mm for a used belt.  It recommends setting deflection for new belt, running engine for 5 to 10 minutes and then resetting to used belt deflection. 

https://www.eurocarparts.com/honda-drive-belt

Youtube video of procedure to replace belt,  I must admit I found job a lot easier by removing the wheel and some of the plastic under the side of wheel arch to give much better access, especially to the lower alternator picot bolt.  Some people replace idler pulley at same time as the belt as they can give problems, idler pulley only applies to cars fitted with aircon.  Some people find they need 2 to 3 hours work, should be shorter than that if car does not have aircon, which complicates things. Save water pump pulley till last when refitting the belt as it runs on smooth side of belt so easier to get belt onto pulley.


MK2 Jazz ( 2008 onwards ) there is a spring loaded idler pulley to set tension,  the spring loaded lever on the pulley has to be sprung back to remove tension to allow belt removal  - there is a special tool ( not expensive ) or you can use a long 19mm spanner.

culzean

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Re: Is this belt wearing off?
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2021, 09:51:47 AM »
It will be the longer, more expensive one if you have aircon
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UKjim

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Is this belt wearing off?
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2021, 10:01:59 AM »
Honda part no. 38920PWA506

https://m.autopartspro.co.uk/dayco-221618

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MicktheMonster

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Re: Is this belt wearing off?
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2021, 04:27:18 AM »
I replaced the belt on my 2003 1.4 manual about 5 years ago (after it snapped) with a Dayco brand belt, it was about £12 from Euro Car Parts, I've since sold the car on to a friend, but I know the belt is still going strong. Euro Car Parts were able to identify the correct belt from my registration number.
I changed it myself and had to strip back the inner wheelarch trim to do it. The old belt made a 'chirruping' noise on tickover for a long time before it snapped which I foolishly ignored, luckily no harm was done. It didn't take long to change, I wouldn't imagine there would be much labour charged for changing it.

culzean

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Re: Is this belt wearing off?
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2021, 09:01:11 AM »
I replaced the belt on my 2003 1.4 manual about 5 years ago (after it snapped) with a Dayco brand belt, it was about £12 from Euro Car Parts, I've since sold the car on to a friend, but I know the belt is still going strong. Euro Car Parts were able to identify the correct belt from my registration number.
I changed it myself and had to strip back the inner wheelarch trim to do it. The old belt made a 'chirruping' noise on tickover for a long time before it snapped which I foolishly ignored, luckily no harm was done. It didn't take long to change, I wouldn't imagine there would be much labour charged for changing it.

On models after the MK1 ( 2002 - 2008 ) there is a spring loaded belt tensioner pulley,  which ensures constant tension on the belt... that is a big improvement because it takes the guesswork out of tightening the belt, the belts are tough and if it is too tight it can cause bearings to fail in alternator, compressor etc.  Seems just like vulnerable CAT, the manual belt tension on MK1 is a problem.
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embee

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Re: Is this belt wearing off?
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2021, 12:05:59 PM »
Auto spring tensioners are greatly preferable to mechanical adjustment, especially for long "serpentine" belts. The tension can change significantly with expansion as the unit and belt heat up, and as Culzean says setting the tension mechanically is always a compromise between too loose and too tight. Belt slip will shorten the life dramatically.
Just be careful taking the load on/off spring tensioners, the forces are quite high, ....... fingers!!

culzean

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Re: Is this belt wearing off?
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2021, 01:07:11 PM »
Auto spring tensioners are greatly preferable to mechanical adjustment, especially for long "serpentine" belts. The tension can change significantly with expansion as the unit and belt heat up, and as Culzean says setting the tension mechanically is always a compromise between too loose and too tight. Belt slip will shorten the life dramatically.
Just be careful taking the load on/off spring tensioners, the forces are quite high, ....... fingers!!

You can get generic tension release tools like one in link below, there  and there are some single size ones designed for Honda, IIRC the Jazz and Civic use 19mm socket. As for me, I just used a couple of combination spanners ( ring spanner on one end, open ended on the other ) and a bit of wood... still got 4 intact fingers and one thumb on each hand.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124241935623?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item1ced657d07:g:V3IAAOSwuHle-2Bc&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSxXDXcCydCuSj2Tq2S%252F3GnqMe2NA9YZ79AQ92Qlz%252BIE4zJbIAeiRkxm0grH%252FrsEFOprvR6vVaSqBf1VrEAG1L8gM60uX2XV4cbW%252FusrUeHF2e%252FugPrH0CfuuNmNwP29B9Q%252BhxyHIsMF1M3c0O8XK1JJT61YBdQpFGobP50sLwU5O09LUvCZNO6xHSHiu10XNhGyVVgj0UIHJX9zZA8Xoimb9x421H5vWQCpDDL7tfp85gjwwkZpOgAIEFL7SXDfNuE%252FbT54mhDl3qppPlBq1ETymjfIfero2F8RTSUIpTCjpHDPilaeSUK8hLmPUl7XWkYLXtgrdwEMD%252F7g2dC%252Fv3h%252FOlk8HI2rtWvHISviWMcy7ZQqSdhsxltzMtwoscJ4Wd2y0ludi9wkTLwpytJpk9MWOMwxSecrUCag3IeWS4Yg2NXMlR1BR3MFR7u6ccKrt320cTn7PeYI0k5sjjGLXwJSZDm8n3rWc4f6LBtqjqcD6MvfqsLW%252Bt0xRiBhFTWu7hewjRd2Waj2oL3HvEbrN5Ujae0wWrZtefjYSEbVXOX0b2Xunj%252Fjpx0xnZtNecOUBVSemssZ%252FbTapeXvQlgFJlca9lhiSQ0eQPVQ7ufPmDt4R6LZLQaOrpuI5A74ehKeLEOSIyH3N%252B%252FF5FmyO3I7rlOxeWQzSe%252BxfwOejP6Mq3IL0nRHMsgMcGwnW6vSmF8iFTMUjzuNEN0Raemgg2amHOPTebNuL%252F1pR%252B1630vvtII4IZSXFET8Zd97D8qY9%252BcF%252F%252F50xlYfHjgxLvX4Q17lu%252BnZVYog%252FA2w%252F4pD6RnMYpx8%252Fha9D%252Bz53AVB1GDagjfYQzb4%252F4%252BV%252F336IOylWPxIvKyA%253D%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBMgsnVj7df
« Last Edit: December 14, 2021, 01:10:10 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

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