Auto stop and battery indicator

[guest4871]

Yes,
The mk 3 battery is very different from the one on earlier non stop/start cars.  It’s described as EFB (extreme flooded battery) Yuasa YBX 7053.  I would not want to move away from OE spec for the battery on a supposedly ‘intelligent’ but sometimes stupid system.
I’ll also try the windscreen off position on the controls but ours is SE so has the rotary system.
Ian

If an EFB battery is so much more expensive than a traditional lead acid one, and is needed for the auto-stop feature, it begs the question of the overall benefit.  The fuel saving is so small that the extra battery cost will never be recovered.  So the only benefit of auto-stop must be reduced pollution in town centres.  But how much extra pollution is produced in the manufacture of the more complex EFB unit?

I think you are exactly right.

It just seems to shift the onus for the pollution away from the car manufacturer to someone else at a greater overall cost both financial and environmental.

That's the problem with targets. They invariably delivery the wrong outcomes because they misdirect the issue.

[andruec]

My idle stop only ever fails to kick in shortly after starting off and the symbols I get are entirely reasonable. A thermometer with a line through it (engine too cold) or AC with a line through it (cabin too cold or in summer too hot).

The only time I've seen battery is in a very long queue and it takes a surprisingly long time before that appears.

Anyway I'm finally picking my new car up tomorrow. Fate of the planet by damned - but I haven't sired any kids so that's my contribution to the problem

[peteo48]

Enjoy the new car and hopefully you'll stick around with first impressions? Always good to get feedback from people moving to a different make and model.

[peteo48]

Just a little update. I think I might have said earlier that I went for about 6 weeks with no Auto Idle Stop. Not immediately after but soon after a trip to North Wales, it came back on for a day. Since then, nothing and that includes over the last few days a 220 mile round trip to Beverley in Yorkshire. On that trip, one of my walking group pals said his Fiesta 1.0 Eco Boost takes long holidays from operating and he does quite a few miles more than me.

It is quite weird. I assume my battery is fully charged after the Beverley trip. I shan't be taking any action because I'm not overly enamoured of the system but it is genuinely mystifying. If I look back to last year, it seemed to work more often than not.

[monkeydave]

think yourself lucky, i pulled out the petrol garage to the exit and it stopped the engine as i forgot to push the button, what a pain, i never use it, and as my instict thinks it is stalling (which it isnt) i floor the clutch and it restarts. this is the first car with stop start i have had, but as ive always said petrol is cheap compared to starter motors or bearings, especially when i get 50mpg and its not even run in yet, that why i push the button every time

i was hoping you could turn it off permantly in the menu but its just the low battery or cold icons you can have on or off so no joy, all the cars i have seen at the dealer the mechanics always keep the rear heated window on as that cancels it but its not good for the heater to be on all the time

although when i picked my car up on the way home it did have the battery indicator stop/start icon on but after 60 miles it has worked properly ever since, on the times i forget to push the button the engine has started imidiately after pressing the clutch in, i have had the cold and stop start icon on as well

i also got the tyre light on but once i reset it, it has been fine since

[peteo48]

Yes - I'm a bit of a sceptic about these systems. My understanding is that a car uses very little fuel at idle in any event. As regards the wear and tear issues I gather the starter motor is uprated to cope.

Before I bought my current Jazz I test drove a hybrid Yaris and the system works very well in these cars because the initial movement from rest is in electric mode and the whole thing seems much smoother.

The main purpose, according to cynics, of stop start systems is to allow car companies to game emission and fuel consumption tests. The key advantage, to my mind, is the reduction of pollution at pavement level when the car is stationary.

In my case, that doesn't seem relevant because it doesn't work that often!

[culzean]

Not a Jazz but a Suzuki Vitara AWD 1.4 boosterjet - my brother has one and the first thing he does when he gets in the car is turn off the idle stop and auto braking ( the auto braking has given him problems on narrow country lanes when trying to overtake - when it has detected the hedge or some other extraneous object and applied the brakes ) - most of these systems are badly thought out and only fitted to get past new legislation in the cheapest possible way - does not bode well for autonomous vehicles - hasn't it gone quiet on that front for quite a while now?

[culzean]

Yes - I'm a bit of a sceptic about these systems. My understanding is that a car uses very little fuel at idle in any event. As regards the wear and tear issues I gather the starter motor is uprated to cope.

Before I bought my current Jazz I test drove a hybrid Yaris and the system works very well in these cars because the initial movement from rest is in electric mode and the whole thing seems much smoother.

The main purpose, according to cynics, of stop start systems is to allow car companies to game emission and fuel consumption tests. The key advantage, to my mind, is the reduction of pollution at pavement level when the car is stationary.

In my case, that doesn't seem relevant because it doesn't work that often!

According to article I saw on direct injection Honda system the fuel injection timing alters completely at low engine speeds, it is injected almost at top of compression stroke and air/fuel ratio is something like 60:1 as engine speed and power requirement increases the timing changes to inject the fuel on induction stroke at a normal 14.5:1 - so from those figures fuel usage at tickover is absolutely miniscule. Makes you wonder why they bother stopping engine ( except to comply with regulations ). Don't know if the change of injection timing coincides with Atkinson / Otto cycle change but it makes sense if you are going to push some of the compressed charge back into inlet manifold on Atkinson mode to inject the fuel as late as possible so you only push air into manifold and no fuel..

[peteo48]

Not a Jazz but a Suzuki Vitara AWD 1.4 boosterjet - my brother has one and the first thing he does when he gets in the car is turn off the idle stop and auto braking ( the auto braking has given him problems on narrow country lanes when trying to overtake - when it has detected the hedge or some other extraneous object and applied the brakes ) - most of these systems are badly thought out and only fitted to get past new legislation in the cheapest possible way - does not bode well for autonomous vehicles - hasn't it gone quiet on that front for quite a while now?

It has a bit. We are seeing a lot of the technology coming on stream in dribs and drabs and some of it is very useful - adaptive cruise control gets a lot of plaudits from users as do other bits and pieces but I also sense a resistance to going the whole hog. Do people really want a completely automated life with no human involvement?

[culzean]

Not a Jazz but a Suzuki Vitara AWD 1.4 boosterjet - my brother has one and the first thing he does when he gets in the car is turn off the idle stop and auto braking ( the auto braking has given him problems on narrow country lanes when trying to overtake - when it has detected the hedge or some other extraneous object and applied the brakes ) - most of these systems are badly thought out and only fitted to get past new legislation in the cheapest possible way - does not bode well for autonomous vehicles - hasn't it gone quiet on that front for quite a while now?

It has a bit. We are seeing a lot of the technology coming on stream in dribs and drabs and some of it is very useful - adaptive cruise control gets a lot of plaudits from users as do other bits and pieces but I also sense a resistance to going the whole hog. Do people really want a completely automated life with no human involvement?

His Suzuki has adaptive cruise control and it gets used regularly, IMHO normal cruise control is not much use in UK due to amount of traffic,  my wifes Jazz Si has normal cruise control and has hardly been used,  I don't think she knows how to use it and I tried it a few times and got fed up of continually tapping the buttons to increase or reduce speed,  I had cars with cruise control when we lived overseas and it was fine on their wide open traffic free roads, but i have found that even on UK motorways it is a waste of time, except maybe in roadworks at 50 mph.  I can remember the time when if you hit 'resume' button when pulling away from traffic lights etc the car would accelerate quite briskly up to set speed ( automatic cars ) - but they have even taken that enjoyable bit out now as CC won't work below 20 mph.....

[orcadian]

Fully agree about standard cruise, continually having to decreases / increase.  Just watch how many vehicles overtake you, because you have the nerve to be in front of them and then slow down, sometimes by as much as 10mph as soon as they have pulled in front often rather sharply. Mind you, in all of the human anatomy books I have studied, the dicks are always at the front.  I also love that rocket ship feeling when you just press a resume button - does that on the GoldWing and the Daimler.

Ian

[peteo48]

I agree about normal cruise. On my trip last week to Beverley I had to negotiate the M60 and then the M62 - it wasn't until we had got well past the Leeds conurbation that the traffic thinned out enough to use it. I see it as a nice to have if only to rest the right leg for a bit on a long journey but adaptive cruise is the one to have.

[Jocko]

As I have said elsewhere, I had cruise control on my Volvo S40 and I used it constantly, even in quiet 30 mph zones. You just accelerated up to the speed you wanted and hit "On" and that was more or less it.

[peteo48]

As I have said elsewhere, I had cruise control on my Volvo S40 and I used it constantly, even in quiet 30 mph zones. You just accelerated up to the speed you wanted and hit "On" and that was more or less it.

Oddly enough, on the way back from Beverley, one of my pals said he used the cruise control on his Nissan Leaf almost constantly as well and even at very low speeds. I can't seem to get into it unless the road is clearish or I'm in a long convoy moving at a steady speed.

[guest4871]

As I have said elsewhere, I had cruise control on my Volvo S40 and I used it constantly, even in quiet 30 mph zones. You just accelerated up to the speed you wanted and hit "On" and that was more or less it.

Me too. I use mine a lot. Depend on the roads, driving style and traffic flow, I suppose.