Author Topic: Auto stop and battery indicator  (Read 40396 times)

John A

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Re: Auto stop and battery indicator
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2019, 11:08:48 AM »
Thought about using a DVM in the 12v power socket, like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LED-Digital-Auto-Car-Truck-Cigarette-Lighter-Volt-Voltage-Meter-Monitor-12V-24V/202260870213?epid=10006309671&hash=item2f17aff445:g:5E0AAOSwnCxaqU83:rk:3:pf:1&frcectupt=true

You can then monitor what the charging system is doing, if it's always at 14v+ then I'd say that the auto start / stop will not activate. With my 2014 manual Jazz which doesn't have start / stop and the Qashqai that did, I'd see readings in the 14v to about 12.5v during normal running around. Though the Jazz always shows 14v+ if driving above about 40mph.

phillywolf

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Re: Auto stop and battery indicator
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2019, 01:48:40 PM »
Well I just don't know what's going on. After yesterdays jaunt it not working just took the car out and within 3 miles it worked for the first time. Outside temp, 2 degrees. I pulled into a supermarket car park to test whether it would work again and blow me after several stop starts in an empty part of the car park it worked every time . Got me thinking now if the battery was low when I picked up the car and 200 miles later the battery is in peak charge, I don't know.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 02:23:32 PM by phillywolf »

andruec

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Re: Auto stop and battery indicator
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2019, 03:28:52 PM »
Well I just don't know what's going on. After yesterdays jaunt it not working just took the car out and within 3 miles it worked for the first time. Outside temp, 2 degrees. I pulled into a supermarket car park to test whether it would work again and blow me after several stop starts in an empty part of the car park it worked every time . Got me thinking now if the battery was low when I picked up the car and 200 miles later the battery is in peak charge, I don't know.
Could be, that was my suspicion. I can only speak from my own (CVT) experience which as I've said is that it works most of the time and there's always a good reason (engine temp or AC usually) why it won't. John Ratsey's explanation of specific fault conditions only being checked on startup might also account for what you've seen.

One other thing is that although my car is parked outside during the working day it is housed in a garage overnight so almost never experiences sub-zero temperatures at startup (although as some of you may remember that hasn't prevented it being a bit temperamental about starting in the past).

As for the benefits of it..they are minor but I do believe they exist. A couple of years ago there were road works on the road leading to my office and they resulted in long queues (over five minutes). If I stopped, IS would kick in and the mpg display would just freeze. If the change took too long (as it often did :( ) the mpg display would start dropping by .1 every half a minute or so.

Are the benefits worth what we've all paid for Honda to incorporate it into the vehicle? I don't know. However since it is in the car it makes sense to use it. It will be (however slightly) reducing fuel consumption and pollution every time it turns the engine off for more than ~3 seconds. With a little thought and anticipation (always a good thing anyway) you can minimise the frequency and ensure that it only turns the engine off when it's worth while and when it won't interfere with you.

phillywolf

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Re: Auto stop and battery indicator
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2019, 04:02:32 PM »
Andruec. thanks for the above. Forgot to add I always garage my cars 30 years now and if the car will not fit in a garage we will not have one. The more I think about it now and not realising the battery in a Jazz was smaller whatever can't recall previous posts I reckon it has stood still somewhere and when delivered to the dealer the infamous PDI dealer checks never picked it up. I don't know. Anyway as previously stated it will not affect the enjoyment of the car. Cheers.

orcadian

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Re: Auto stop and battery indicator
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2019, 04:16:15 PM »
Lots of food for thought from your great replies, thanks.  I have emailed the Dealer with the situation so far but have yet to get a reply (but only a few hours ago). This was really only to start the ball rolling.  I might eventually put it on my ‘intelligent’ charger to ensure max available capacity and wait for a bit warmer weather to give it a definitive test, unless of course it fails to start in the interim.
Not sure how much improvement in fuel economy it would need to pay for the addition of this auto idle stop system, especially in our case here in Orkney.
Regards,
Ian

Jocko

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Re: Auto stop and battery indicator
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2019, 04:28:48 PM »
You can then monitor what the charging system is doing, if it's always at 14v+ then I'd say that the auto start / stop will not activate. With my 2014 manual Jazz which doesn't have start / stop and the Qashqai that did, I'd see readings in the 14v to about 12.5v during normal running around. Though the Jazz always shows 14v+ if driving above about 40mph.
I popped over to Edinburgh today. and because the ScanGauge E has a range of parameters you can monitor, I selected battery voltage. It sat at 14.6 volts for the entire journey.

andruec

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Re: Auto stop and battery indicator
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2019, 04:52:37 PM »
Not sure how much improvement in fuel economy it would need to pay for the addition of this auto idle stop system, especially in our case here in Orkney.
Lol, no, I shouldn't think it'll save you much. It probably doesn't save much for me either. My normal commute is largely main roads and in the morning I avoid rush hour. I'd also far rather not come to a standstill at all (more energy required to accelerate from stationary) so I minimise it's opportunities as well.

I suspect its main advantage is in air quality for pedestrians but even that's probably negligible. Outside of that it possibly also helps pass emissions tests. But..we have it and have paid for it so we might as well try and get best value out of it.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 04:56:25 PM by andruec »

Jocko

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Re: Auto stop and battery indicator
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2019, 05:00:35 PM »
I'd also far rather not come to a standstill at all (more energy required to accelerate from stationary)
This is something I try my best to achieve. People say, "What difference does it make?" but try pushing a broken down car and see how difficult it is to get it moving, and how much easier it is to push, once moving.

John Ratsey

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Re: Auto stop and battery indicator
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2019, 05:06:01 PM »
Not sure how much improvement in fuel economy it would need to pay for the addition of this auto idle stop system, especially in our case here in Orkney.
It's a feature added to improve the urban mpg in the official testing as the test routine includes a lot of stopping, waiting and restarting. However, the test rules allowed the vehicles to reach optimum operating temperature before testing so that the high fuel consumption by cold engines (probably a bigger hit to mpg than being stuck in queuing traffic) never got included. I think that's changed with the real life testing - I was told by my Honda dealer that the new CR-V has thermostatically controlled shutters on the engine compartment which is a feature I would have added years ago.

And I wouldn't be worried that the car won't start. There's a big margin between the battery state for the stop-start to work and the charge needed to start the engine. Nonetheless, manually charging the battery will help maintain good battery health and might get the stop-start to work.
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

orcadian

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Re: Auto stop and battery indicator
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2019, 09:11:18 AM »
Many thanks John,
I too would not be concerned about it not starting under normal conditions, what I was really bothered about is why the battery symbol came on at the end of a fairly lengthy drive and whether this just might be connected to the fact that the car was not used for possibly more than a year after the demise of the owner; during which time the battery MIGHT have been allowed to go flat.  If others have had similar warning symbols on regularly used cars, then I probably don’t have anything to worry about.

Regards,
Ian

phillywolf

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Re: Auto stop and battery indicator
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2019, 05:15:16 PM »
Sorry to continue this thread. I had initial problem with this now 500 miles in and has never failed after a short half a mile drive. I have had air con on and still works, no pressing brake pedal hard. It just works as normal. I firmly believe as stated previously our car was sat around prior to sale and battery charge was not checked during PDI. I also appreciate temperature is rising slightly at this time.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 05:24:58 PM by phillywolf »

ColinB

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Re: Auto stop and battery indicator
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2019, 08:14:26 PM »
Just to chuck in my recent experience with the Idle-Stop (IS) system.

My car has just been garaged for 5 weeks whilst we fled to a southern hemisphere summer. It started first time, once I'd remembered to depress the clutch (having been driving rented automatics).

However the IS didn't operate, the multi-functional display showing the "low battery" indication. And that persisted throughout a series of short local drives, even during the recent  "heatwave". Presumably the tiny current drain whilst garaged was just enough to drop the voltage below the threshold that prevented the IS operating (but not enough to prevent the car starting) and the local drives weren't enough to recharge that tiny amount.

Just done the first motorway drive since returning, and I still got the "low battery" indication when I stopped after around 80 miles. However at traffic lights just a couple of miles after restarting it started functioning normally. That suggests there's something in the theory that the computer decides at the start of a drive if IS is going to function, and doesn't revisit that decision until a new drive starts even if all the inhibiting factors - such as battery charge - become OK during the drive.

peteo48

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Re: Auto stop and battery indicator
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2019, 09:25:21 PM »
I think what you say makes a lot of sense Colin. Mine hasn't worked for about a month now. I had a similar situation last year after we had been on holiday and it took some time before it started working again. I think my experience has been, a bit like the situation you describe, the car decides at the start of a journey it isn't going to use the system. I can't recall a situation where it has kicked in during a journey but I wouldn't swear to that.

My pattern of driving must be pretty heavy on the battery - short journeys with literally everything on if it has been frosty.

monkeydave

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Re: Auto stop and battery indicator
« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2019, 08:45:23 PM »
ive just picked my jazz up today, it has been sitting about since last sept as its pre reg with 16 miles on and after a 60 mile run (most motorway) it started to work ok

i was getting the battery symbol and the stop/start symbol on the screen

is it the battery itself that was low? will i have problems driving the car soon if i dont charge it up? i always push the button to stop it comming on as i dont like the system and would rather have it disabled from any car i own, i was just trying it as its new

ColinB

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Re: Auto stop and battery indicator
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2019, 10:22:54 PM »
If it's been unused since September then it's likely that the battery voltage has dropped slightly due to systems like the alarm that continually draw current. That's enough to prevent the ultra-cautious Idle-Stop system from stopping the engine. But - as you've doubtless discovered - that isn't enough to prevent the engine starting when you need it to. If it's now functioning as  it should after your longish drive then there's no need for concern about the battery state.

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