Author Topic: Electric cars  (Read 695694 times)

guest1372

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #210 on: September 23, 2017, 11:28:13 AM »
You get to the point of diminishing returns when you try to run vehicles with a big payload (20 tones or more) off batteries where the weight of the batteries required becomes way too heavy and reduces the payload considerably
"Despite the amount of energy required to move this 110-ton beast, it turns out that it can be done with an electric powertrain.

Lithium Storage GmbH and Kuhn Schweiz AG disassembled the Komatsu 605-7 and replaced the diesel engine with a synchronous electric motor capable of 590kW (800hp) of continuous power and up to 9,500 Nm torque.  They originally planned to fit a massive 600 kWh lithium-ion battery pack to power the electric motor, but they actually managed to fit 700 kWh of energy capacity on the chassis of the vehicle by using 1,440 prismatic NMC cells for a total battery pack weight of 4.5 tons."

"The truck's daily schedule - trucking material from a mountain ridge down into a valley 20 times a day - makes it ideal for electric conversion. Instead of wasting heat energy on the brakes as the truck descends, the energy can be harvested and used to charge the batteries.  If all goes as planned, the team claims, the truck apparently harvests more energy going downhill than it needs for the ascent, so it can actually feed surplus electricity into the grid (It's not exactly clear how that squares with the laws of thermodynamics).

.... the truck will be able to recuperate 40 kWh of its way down, something the truck does 20 times a day for a total of 800 kWh of energy capacity through regenerative braking."

--
TG


http://www.techradar.com/news/the-worlds-biggest-electric-vehicle-is-this-dumper-truck

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #211 on: September 23, 2017, 09:02:44 PM »
the team claims, the truck apparently harvests more energy going downhill than it needs for the ascent, so it can actually feed surplus electricity into the grid (It's not exactly clear how that squares with the laws of thermodynamics).
They may go downhill loaded and uphill empty.
Some of these big dumper trucks are actually driverless. Works well in the confine of the quarry or mine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_Re68mLf9Q

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #212 on: September 25, 2017, 02:28:17 PM »
On the news today, that the Chief Executive of Scottish Power says the UK needs to increase its generating capacity by 25% to cope with electric cars and the shift to electric heating. Keith Anderson was speaking as the firm reached the milestone of 2,000  megawatts of wind power capacity.That equates to about an eighth of the British total.
He also said there would have to be a major investment in the wiring necessary to handle rapid charging of car batteries.
He said that once the price of electric cars falls to that of petrol or diesel, which it is thought will happen between 2022 and 2025, there could be a rapid shift in buying patterns and electricity usage.
Earlier this month, First Minister Nicola Sturgeon announced a target of shifting from petrol and diesel-fuelled cars to battery power by 2032, while the UK government intends to make that shift by 2040.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-41373466

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #213 on: September 26, 2017, 06:33:10 PM »
I see Dyson have announced they are investing £2bn to start building battery powered electric cars. He will have a car ready by 2020. Seemingly a team of 400 engineers have been working on the project for the past 2 years. He is keeping his cards close to his chest on details.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #214 on: September 26, 2017, 07:35:08 PM »
I see Dyson have announced they are investing £2bn to start building battery powered electric cars. He will have a car ready by 2020. Seemingly a team of 400 engineers have been working on the project for the past 2 years. He is keeping his cards close to his chest on details.

Hope the cars are put together better than his vacuum cleaners.  Is he expecting to clean up the market ? Wonder why he hopes to succeed where the silicon valley whizz kids have failed ? Car makers have the skills to make cars, they can buy in any tech they need.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #215 on: September 26, 2017, 07:44:57 PM »
I have a Dyson vacuum cleaner and it is brilliant. Been using it for a few years now. Even the battery lasts well, which surprised me.

guest4871

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #216 on: September 26, 2017, 10:01:33 PM »
I see Dyson have announced they are investing £2bn to start building battery powered electric cars. He will have a car ready by 2020. Seemingly a team of 400 engineers have been working on the project for the past 2 years. He is keeping his cards close to his chest on details.

Hope the cars are put together better than his vacuum cleaners.  Is he expecting to clean up the market ? Wonder why he hopes to succeed where the silicon valley whizz kids have failed ? Car makers have the skills to make cars, they can buy in any tech they need.

To be fair I suspect he is focusing on the motors and batteries. Any car maker can assembly the car. He seems to  have recruited the Product Development Director of Aston Martin. The car won't be cheap!

Bloombergs account below sets out an interesting insight into Dyson's aspirations.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-26/dyson-will-build-radically-different-electric-car-by-2020

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/dyson-car-former-aston-martin-product-development-director-joins-dyson


culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #217 on: September 27, 2017, 08:18:17 AM »
One of the articles says Dyson has no plans (or the money) to set up charging infrastructure and is looking for government money (i.e. taxpayers money) to fit 21kw charging points in people's homes, now 21kw is about 84 amps, and the total supply to most homes is 80 to 100 amps (with a supply company fuse to protect their cables). You really won't be able to have a shower or boil your kettle while car is charging LOL - I don't think supply companies have the money or the will to upgrade their infrastructure to give houses extra power, and the cables are not sized for all households to draw max current at same time (diversity factor), so it will be equivalent of Tesla power wall in the house to level out the demand on the supply cables.

Dyson also says their car won't be cheap (which is a given for Dyson stuff, their hand driers are best part of £2grand each)  what he does not say is if it will be held together with flimsy plastic tags that break when you try to open a cover to fix the car).
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #218 on: September 27, 2017, 08:30:05 AM »
One of the articles says Dyson has no plans (or the money) to set up charging infrastructure and is looking for government money (i.e. taxpayers money) to fit 21kw charging points in people's homes

Dyson also says their car won't be cheap
Can you please link to the articles quoted as I am having trouble finding them?

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #219 on: September 27, 2017, 08:54:40 AM »
Found this reference: "There's no point in doing one that looks like everyone else's," he said, adding that it would not be a sports car and it would not be "a very cheap" car.
A big difference between "a very cheap" car and won't be cheap. A Tesla is not cheap, but to me a very cheap car is the likes of the Tata Nano or the old Kia Pride. I think what he is saying is it won't be a Sinclair C5!

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #220 on: September 27, 2017, 09:03:16 AM »
How about one of these. The Bollinger. Look familiar?

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #221 on: September 27, 2017, 10:50:16 AM »
One of the articles says Dyson has no plans (or the money) to set up charging infrastructure and is looking for government money (i.e. taxpayers money) to fit 21kw charging points in people's homes

Dyson also says their car won't be cheap
Can you please link to the articles quoted as I am having trouble finding them?

They are the links in zzaj post, Bloomberg and autocar articles.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #222 on: September 27, 2017, 11:09:11 AM »
One of the issues that is becoming more apparent (to me anyway) is just how inadequate the current charging infrastructure is for charging electric cars on the move. Now we will not need as many individual outlets as we do petrol stations because around 90% of charging is done at home but there are still charging deserts and still journeys that are next to impossible in an EV.

In short, despite the best efforts of some really quite small players like Ecotricity and Charge Your Car, the network is pants, garbage, rubbish - whatever you like to call it and the responsibility for that needs dumping where it belongs and that is on most EV manufacturers who appear to have zero interest in creating a useable network. Only Tesla "get" what is required and that is multiple chargers at each location so there is always a charger free and always a charger working.

Sometimes you need to set targets to focus minds - we probably all had targets set for us at work - I know I did so this would be a workable target:

"It should be possible to charge an EV at 50 mile intervals. That charger should be rapid. Charging should be standardised across all makes and the need for Apps to check in advance should be abolished."

How hard can it be given the will? I can see why governments have set a 2040 deadline because we are light years away from a useable charging network. Currently EVs remain something for the "Early Adopters" amongst us. Nothing wrong with that but I won't buy an EV until the target above is reached. At my age that may well mean never.

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #223 on: September 27, 2017, 11:15:33 AM »
Just to add - read a post on an EV forum recently - another target:

"200 miles range at 70 mph with aircon, heating, wipers and lights on in wet weather at 5 degrees. That car to cost no more than a comparable ICE car."

This probably in reach and might mean the charging network target becomes less essential although should still be an aspiration

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #224 on: September 27, 2017, 11:19:00 AM »
They are the links in zzaj post, Bloomberg and autocar articles.
Right thanks, Bloombergs wouldn't allow me to see their page because of my ad blocker. Disabled it and found the parts you were referring to.

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