Electric cars

[culzean]

I would expect EVs to use heat pumps which are much more power-efficient than using simple resistance heating. I would expect no more than 200W (and probably nearer 100W) would be needed to keep the vehicle warm so that's a least 5 hours of heating per kWh of battery. Nonetheless, I would consider the bottom 20% in the battery to be a reserve for emergencies but it's also better for the battery longevity to not deplete it below 20%.

At the kind of temperatures where you don't need heating ( >35 deg C ) air source heat pumps will return over 3KW of heat for every 1KW of electricity used to drive the system.  However now drop to 5 deg C and the return drops to <1.5 per KW,  like most sources of clean ( renewable ) power when you need them the most they give the least. ( fans on sticks <5% and solar <6% of grid demand today,  which considering the 'installed capacity' and the cost of installing it is miserable ).

[JimSh]

Came across this, on my Pensioner's Forum. There are a lot of people, still to be convinced......

It doesn't look to me like whoever produced that has thought about it. At least not very numerately.

Or someone is trying to deceive pensioners.
A battery which can move a tonne of metal 100miles at 70mph contains enough energy to run a house far less heat a car for a few hours using a heat exchanger.
Also if all the other cars stuck around you are electric you don't have to worry about inhaling their exhaust fumes.

At the kind of temperatures where you don't need heating ( >35 deg C ) air source heat pumps will return over 3KW of heat for every 1KW of electricity used to drive the system.  However now drop to 5 deg C and the return drops to <1.5 per KW,
 

Even if heat pumps aren't working at their most efficient there would still be more than enough energy stored in the battery to keep you warm for hours.
Taking John's figure of 200W, 2kWh would give you 10hours.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2022-ford-f-150-lightning-electric-pickup-intelligent-backup-power-house/

[embee]

Typical consumption of small/medium EV cars is 3 or 4 miles per kWh. If it's doing 30mph average that's something like 10kWhr of motive energy used in an hour. If you ran a 1kW heater in it, that equates to an extra 10% consumption, not exactly huge. As others say, I doubt you need 1kW heating for very long to get a car warm and then it could be ramped down.

[Jocko]

Today I followed a 69 plate Tesla out of a car park and the boot lid fit was atrocious. Touching at one side and about a finger's width the other.

[peteo48]

Yes - hearing and reading a lot of build quality issues relating to Teslas.

[TiJazz]

Made in China ones (20 onwards) are said to be much better. My US made one was dire.

[embee]

I remember reading a report by a major car manufacturer who had done a tear-down analysis of an early Tesla. This is a normal process where they take competitor vehicles apart and analyse the engineering, weights, costs, assembly processes etc.
The conclusion was that it left an awful lot to be desired regarding design for assembly, which would inevitably lead to significant variation in build quality. There were examples of "bracket on a bracket" type assemblies, too many tolerances stacking up and costly build, and likely reliability issues.
I imagine the design process has evolved and is now significantly better, well at least I'd hope so.

[ColinB]

I imagine the design process has evolved and is now significantly better, well at least I'd hope so.

Or maybe not. Tesla consistently scores poorly in reliability surveys, for example:
https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/09/the-two-least-reliable-car-brands-plus-why-you-should-avoid-a-luxury-car-if-you-want-good-reliability/

[culzean]

I imagine the design process has evolved and is now significantly better, well at least I'd hope so.

Or maybe not. Tesla consistently scores poorly in reliability surveys, for example:
https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/09/the-two-least-reliable-car-brands-plus-why-you-should-avoid-a-luxury-car-if-you-want-good-reliability/

Article from the same site

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2021/06/eight-things-electric-car-owners-should-know/

[TiJazz]

The Model 3 was initially over-engineered and poorly assembled, as you’d expect from a company that’s only been making cars for a decade.

They’ve improved the processes over time, but still suffer from quality issues when it comes to assembly.

The Model Y is a huge step up in terms of process design from what I’ve seen, and the China factories seem to have solved the assembly quality issues apparently.

[culzean]

Tesla sales in China slump due to safety and quality issues, added to removal of subsidies on BEV by government, which mean BEV sales in general have slumped anyway.

https://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/3133093/teslas-suffers-setback-china-backlash-over-safety-quality-its




Comment on ‘why Honda failed in UK’


Honda rightly removed itself from the UK market once the UK Government declared, inexplicably, that 'electric vehicles' were the future.

Nissan's £100m UK-subsidised battery plant is a folly - just like Boris's bike scheme and bike lanes in London, just like his support for HS2 or a Thames Estuary airport.

First, China is supplying the plant itself - so yet more support from the UK to not only a very aggressive, criminal gang who are crushing freedoms in Hong Kong - but a country whose own electric car sector is already in deep crisis.  https://www.reuters.com/business/retail-consumer/nissan-bets-big-uk-with-ev-battery-plant-new-crossover-2021-07-01/

Its 'star' electric car company, NIO, needed a Chinese government emergency cash injection of $1.4bn to stop it going bankrupt. Next, few Chinese are fooled in buying these awful, expensive, low range (can't tow anything or else the battery drains to nothing..) vehicles - even when the price is at least 40% of manufacturing cost - just like most Chinese exported goods.

Boris's support for the Chinese electric car sector is a shocker..

China believes in monopolising the market by bankrupting all overseas rivals via a policy of 'far below cost' pricing that no western firm could possibly match.

Staff at NIO have already been sharply cut back. Taxi drivers forced to buy them hate them like the plague as they take two hours to charge up and they have to queue for one hour for a charging station. Batteries bursting into flames adds to their 'appeal'.

Until the UK Government installs around 2,000 charging stations minimum at the UK's motorway service stations, and many more at the biggest, the ridiculous, impractical, hugely expensive White Elephant of the electric car 'revolution' - won't happen.

And 95% of UK motorists will never willingly buy one. Who would??

[nowster]

And 95% of UK motorists will never willingly buy one. Who would??

And some of those who recently got one are now regretting it. (A friend who lives in a second floor flat with separate parking is now regretting getting a Renault Zoe. She's had no end of trouble trying to organise charging it up.)

[TiJazz]

I had a Zoe without home charging. 80 mile range on a good day, completely reliant on the 7kW post at the gym round the corner.

The week after I sold it, that gym charger stopped working. I would have been screwed.

Please don’t buy an EV unless you have reliable home charging, and never plan to travel more than half the range of the car (unless you can guarantee destination charging, or have a Tesla).

Trust me - I’ve had 3 EVs!

[nowster]

Please don’t buy an EV unless you have reliable home charging, and never plan to travel more than half the range of the car (unless you can guarantee destination charging, or have a Tesla).

She's thinking of driving from Manchester to Huntingdon later in the year. That's really marginal as the range is about 180 miles, and it's 160 miles via M62/A1, without a huge number of charging points in the town. (And she's hoping to use free ones. Not a chance!)

If she still has the Zoe, and I'm asked, I'll be suggesting she hires a proper car for that trip.

[culzean]

Please don’t buy an EV unless you have reliable home charging, and never plan to travel more than half the range of the car (unless you can guarantee destination charging, or have a Tesla).

She's thinking of driving from Manchester to Huntingdon later in the year. That's really marginal as the range is about 180 miles, and it's 160 miles via M62/A1, without a huge number of charging points in the town. (And she's hoping to use free ones. Not a chance!)

If she still has the Zoe, and I'm asked, I'll be suggesting she hires a proper car for that trip.

If she stays at 40mph all the way and doesn't use any of the equipment in the car ( including radio  ) she should get near to claimed range,  I think some of the 'monospeeders' ( 40 mph in 60, 50, 30, 20 mph limits )  I see are BEV drivers worried about range