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Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - 2020 => Topic started by: John Ratsey on September 11, 2015, 10:22:28 PM

Title: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: John Ratsey on September 11, 2015, 10:22:28 PM
I have started this thread to share my initial findings after 3 days and nearly 300 miles in my orange SE CVT. I expect other new owners will also be keen to share their observations and I would expect that I'll have more to say after I've done some more driving.

1.      Auto headlights.
There does not appear to be a way to turn off the auto feature and get the lights under intelligent manual control (ie me). The system over-reacts to shade on a sunny day - the headlights came on and stayed on at 6:15pm yesterday due to the road being in shadow but there was still plenty of daylight on a clear, sunny evening - the other drivers must have been puzzled why I had the headlights on. After all, the car has DRLs and hence very visible to other road users. The off position on the switch is spring loaded and only turns the lights off after I have stopped the car and removed the key. Turning the switch to off while the car is moving and has decided that the headlights should be on has no effect. At the moment this is the most annoying feature of the new car.

2.      Auto Idle Stop:
The Auto Idle Stop also has an element of unpredictability. The handbook has a long list of circumstances when it won't work but I can't relate any of these to why the feature didn't work once on a 2 hour cross country journey. I can understand the system limiting the number of stop-starts in a given period (ie crawling traffic) but not when waiting at some traffic lights after several miles of open roads. The only possible factor I can think of is that the outside temperature was over 20°C. If this was the reason then the temperature threshold needs increasing. It's not that the auto stop isn't working: When near to home I refueled the car and auto stop did work when I was waiting to get onto the road. A related feature of this system is that a light touch of the brake pedal sufficient to stop the car moving isn't enough to activate the Auto Idle Stop, which needs a harder push on the pedal. This is a sensible arrangement which provices a level of manual control over what is happening (and there is also a disable button next to the gear stick). For example, at traffic lights, reducing brake pressure when the orange light appears lets the engine give a quick cough and start up before having to pull away.

3.      Traffic Sign Recognition:
The traffic sign recognition works quite well at reading the speed limit signs but there seems to be a time-out (time or distance) after reading the last sign when the display reverts to three dashes.

4.      Parking Sensors
The parking sensors worked OK once I had discovered that I needed to switch them on. However, they get confused by narrow country roads with solid banks but I now know where the on/off button is.

5.      Lane Departure Warning System
The lane departure warning system works well but my wife complained that the buzzer will disrupt her dozing! The buzzer also gets activated by white lines down the side of roads barely wide enough for two vehicles when passing means the car has to get a wheel onto the line. However, this system is easy to turn on/off with a switch next to the parking sensor switch.

6.      Acceleration and CVT Behaviour
There is some hesitancy while accelerating while the car decides what to do. However, I'm coming from the hybrid where the motor helped to low end torque and enabled much smoother acceleration and may need to adjust my driving style accordingly.  The upside of this characteristic is that it is easier to maintain a given cruising speed - the hybrid was more sensitive to small movements of the right foot. Normally a slightly audible 3,000 rpm is enough revs to get the car up to speed. The reviewers who complained about excessive engine noise must have been driving somewhat more agressively. Once up to speed the CVT was very (over?) responsive to changes in the accelerator pedal. For example, easing off the power due to a bend while going up hill would result in an upshift of the gearing followed quickly by a downshift when the power was reapplied. Perhaps I'll have to explore the S mode or playing with the paddles.

7.      Brakes
The brakes seem to be smoother than on the old car without the need to ease off the pedal as the car stops.

8.   Obstacle Warning / Braking Systems
The handbook states that the City Brake Active System uses a low power laser. It was probably this system which made a noise yesterday when a motorcycle pulled in just in front of me when I was in a traffic queue. The Forward Collision Warning System uses a camera (probably the same one as for the sign recognition). It can be configured to be far, normal (the default) and near. Another related feature that I hadn't seen described is that hard braking at above 37 mph (60 kmph) will cause the haxard warning lights to be temporarily activated. I recall seeing a few cars doing this when a stream of traffic on a motorway has to quickly slow down.

9.   Deflation Warning System
The handbook explains that this system works by comparing the wheel rotations and needs to be calibrated (an option on the multi-function display) after any wheel changes. The book says that using a space saver wheel is likely to trigger the warning.

10.   Reflections on Windscreen
My hybrid suffered from very distracting (due to mixed bright and dark) reflections of the top of the dashboard on the windscreen when driving into the sun. The new car is much better in this respect although there can be uniform bright reflections under some conditions. The improvement has been achieved by smoothing over the area above the steering wheel. in fact, the whole area between seats and windscreen appears to be higher than on the old model and a portable sat nav slightly intrudes into the view through the windscreen.

11.   Front End Shape
The centre section of the car's nose is more vertical than the old model while the sides of the front are more curved. I hope that these changes mean that low-flying stones are less likely to be carried up the bonnet and hit the windscreen.

12.   Sockets
The SE has a 12V socket, two USB sockets and an HDMI socket. Videos can be played on the in-car screen using the HDMI input but the book says this will only work when the car isn't moving. One of the USB sockets is in the little box between the two front seats while the other is forward of the gear stick.

13.   Key Remote
The remote buttons on the key are small. They could be a hassle if wearing gloves or for people have weak or fat fingers.

14.    Fuel Consumption
My first refilling of the fuel tank was at 280 miles with the fuel gauge one segment above half on the gauge. However, I managed to squeeze in 23 litres when the gauge would have suggested less than 20 litres (20 segments on the gauge so 2 litres/segment).  280 miles and 23 litres = 54.6 mpg. However, I don't stop refilling at the first cut-out of the pump nozzle since it takes time for the fuel to work its way through the pipe to the tank. If I had stopped refilling when the pump first cut out then it would have been about 2 litres less and nearly 60 mpg. The greater part of the 280 miles was A road driving at whatever speed the lorries were travelling at, but there was some town driving and some in undulating narrow country lanes.

If anyone has questions then I'll do my best to answer them.
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: Ozzie on September 11, 2015, 10:47:00 PM
The lane departure warning buzzer, doesn't buzz if you signal to change lanes  ;D

A nice review though, thanks
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: Downsizer on September 12, 2015, 09:34:22 AM
Have you any comments about the ride, which is the aspect of the Mk II I like least?  Changing from your hybrid may not be a typical comparison, as I expect the hybrid was heavier, with a steadier ride.  Thank you for your initial review, which leaves me thinking that perhaps the technical gizmos are getting a bit above themselves these days!
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: John Ratsey on September 12, 2015, 10:52:02 AM
The lane departure warning buzzer, doesn't buzz if you signal to change lanes  ;D
Correct. I do use the indicators for lane changing but not always when temporarily crossing a line, such as for passing a bicycle on an otherwise empty road.

What I would like, for the benefit of some other drivers who have forgotten (if they had ever learnt) what their indicators are for, is a device that gives an electric shock for turning without prior indication. Driving standards seem to be deteriorating.

Have you any comments about the ride, which is the aspect of the Mk II I like least?  Changing from your hybrid may not be a typical comparison, as I expect the hybrid was heavier, with a steadier ride.  Thank you for your initial review, which leaves me thinking that perhaps the technical gizmos are getting a bit above themselves these days!
I have tried to evaluate the ride but it's very subjective. It's generally smooth and definitely no worse (ie probably better) than the hybrid (which, as you note, seemed to sit on the road better than the normal Jazz). I felt a couple of minor bumps in a place where the top layer of road surfacing had disappeared leaving some inch deep holes.

The car also handles speed bumps OK. I have been over some of the cushion type of bumps without anything scraping. I measured clearance from the plastic tray under the engine as 13cm and there is also a rubber skirt below the front bumper that extends to 15cm above ground level. I assume that the skirt and the tray are primarily to improve the aerodynamics.

I was happy to see that the tyres on my Jazz are the Michelin energy savers. They gave good service on the hybrid and, from what I've read, have slightly better winter grip than most normal tyres. Concrete road surfaces are still quite noisy but perhaps not as bad as in the previous car. And wind noise from having windows slightly open seems to be less.

Another point of detail is that the flap for the fuel tank filler has to be manually released by a lever on the driver's door pillar just above the bonnet release. I wonder why Honda made this change?

Another welcome feature is that the angle of the head restraints on the front seats is adjustable.

I had previously posted a photo of the front passenger's view of the sensor unit. Here are a couple of other views of the unit plus a photo that illustrates my comment about the shape of the front.

At the moment the only uncontrollable dumb intelligence that is really annoying me is the auto headlights. I rechecked the switch and it definitely won't stay in off. Most of the auto features have a manual override either through switches or settings but the driver isn't allowed to take charge of the headlights except by turning the switch to the sidelight position. I've raised this issue with my dealer. Having a proper off (ie manual control) position on the switch will require a new switch.

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Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: Pine on September 12, 2015, 12:21:42 PM
If it is raining but not dark enough to make the auto headlights come on can you switch the lights on manually?

On the Ford Fiesta if both the wipers and lights are in the auto position the lights will come on if the wipers operate continuously.  But it is also possible to switch off the auto lights and switch them on manually as and when required.
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: edam on September 12, 2015, 12:42:57 PM
Thanks for taking the time to write the review .
Looking at the photo of the sensor and interior mirror you may have made the same mistake as I did.
The mirror can be adjusted higher so its about 5 cm from the top of the windscreen. There is the normal ball joint at the mirror end but the arm also hinges up or down.This makes the sensor pack less noticeable especially for tall drivers like myself.
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: John Ratsey on September 12, 2015, 12:43:54 PM
If it is raining but not dark enough to make the auto headlights come on can you switch the lights on manually?

On the Ford Fiesta if both the wipers and lights are in the auto position the lights will come on if the wipers operate continuously.  But it is also possible to switch off the auto lights and switch them on manually as and when required.
The light switch has 4 positions: Off (but it won't stay there and jumps back to Auto), Auto, side lights and headlights. So it is possible to over-rule the auto operation to make the lights come on but not the other way round. The dumb bit is not having a proper off position (when the DRLs would still be on but the driver decides on when to change from DRL to other lights). The DRLs come on once the ignition key is in position 2 but turning on side or headlights turns the DRLs off. The side lights are effectively parking lights.
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: JazzandJag on September 12, 2015, 03:02:38 PM
Your comment regarding the lights is interesting. This is something I had not picked up on during the test drive. 

I am assuming that your hybrid had automatic climate control and if this is correct, your comments on making the backward transition to the manual heating/ventilation controls would be appreciated. For my part this is the one thing I am not looking forward to. Whilst the SE does not need the touchscreen climate control of the EX, a basic auto system with physical buttons such as found in my 2013 ES would have been appreciated.

Anyway only 6 days until I collect my blue SE CVT from Listers Honda.
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: edam on September 12, 2015, 04:55:27 PM
I hate the climate controls on my MK2 ES.
To have controls you can turn and click is enough reason to buy a MK3
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: John Ratsey on September 12, 2015, 09:04:12 PM
I am assuming that your hybrid had automatic climate control and if this is correct, your comments on making the backward transition to the manual heating/ventilation controls would be appreciated. For my part this is the one thing I am not looking forward to. Whilst the SE does not need the touchscreen climate control of the EX, a basic auto system with physical buttons such as found in my 2013 ES would have been appreciated.
My hybrid HS didn't have full climate control in that I decided when the A/C should be on while fan speed and air direction were controlled by buttons. However, it did have a digital temperature control (again with up / down buttons) which worked fine most of the time but I always had to do a manual correction when the temperature was hot enough to justify putting the A/C on - 17C or 18C was fine for fresh air but needed to be changed to about 23C for the A/C.

The new SE has a set of knobs (see the photo) so there is less poking at buttons. However, the rotary temperature control will need trial and error to find the right temperature but it's easier to change than buttons so overall an improvement. Buttons for A/C and rear screen / mirror heaters are below the knobs as is a lever for the fresh air / recirculation.

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Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: RichardA on September 13, 2015, 07:00:35 PM
It looks like the sensors housing will usefully block out sunlight but doesn't leave any room for placing a dashcam.
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: John Ratsey on September 13, 2015, 07:20:51 PM
It looks like the sensors housing will usefully block out sunlight but doesn't leave any room for placing a dashcam.
I had been planning to put my camera on the passenger side of the sensor unit where it won't obstruct the driver's vision (but will impede the passenger's view). However, measuring the distance from pivot to wiper tip (90cm) suggests sensor area isn't in the area of wiper coverage. I'll be able to verify this once I've driven through some wet and filthy road conditions. If I'm correct then the sensor system's performance will be degraded under the conditions where it would be most useful. I'll be watching out for this.

It's a shame that, given that the on-board camera must be good quality for the sign recognition etc, Honda didn't think to provide a (micro)SD card slot into which the driver could place their own card if they wanted to record the last several hours of driving conditions.
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: Jazzik on September 13, 2015, 10:57:55 PM

 in fact, the whole area between seats and windscreen appears to be higher than on the old model and a portable sat nav slightly intrudes into the view through the windscreen.

The Jazz has such beautiful, small triangular windows, at both sides of the dashboard. These are specially designed for one particular purpose... (http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/konfus/a015.gif)

Try your sat nav there... (http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/konfus/c042.gif)
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: John Ratsey on September 14, 2015, 07:37:29 AM
With the help of some overnight rain I've now been able to check if the wipers clear the sensor area: It's just OK and it appears that the asymmetric sensor arrangement is to get them into the wiper coverage.

When I made my measurements I had overlooked the small wiper blade being on a long, but bent, arm.  :-[

Putting the sat nav onto one of the little windows is an option although I like the convenience of having the sat nav on a weighted base so it can be quickly put in the footwell when the car is parked and equally quickly put back onto the dashboard.

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Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: John Ratsey on September 14, 2015, 09:42:29 PM
An update on the auto headlight saga which I raised with my sales rep. He assured me that turning the light switch to the off position any time after starting the car would tell the car to change the lights to manual control and a further turn of the switch (remember that it is spring-loaded and won't stay in off) would change the lights back to auto. He has tried this out on the demonstrator that he is driving and claims it works. However, I have tried this out on my car and it refuses to behave in the same way so the matter is not resolved as far as I am concerned. The switch itself is not dead because it will turn the headlists off after I take the key out of the ignition (the system defaults to leaving the lights on until after the car is locked). We are unlikely to resolve this in the next few days as the rep and myself are heading in different directions.

It would be useful if the other new Jazz owners can also share their experience with this aspect (and anything else).
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: Paulwhitt20 on September 14, 2015, 10:17:47 PM
Just tested this on our Jazz. With the ignition on or engine on and parked in a dark place the headlights come on. Move the headlight switch from auto to off and back and the headlights go off. Move the switch to off again and back turns them on again. So it looks like you can turn them off but will have to do it each time you start the car. It's possible your switch is not making contact when in the spring loaded position.
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: John Ratsey on September 14, 2015, 10:29:07 PM
Just tested this on our Jazz. With the ignition on or engine on and parked in a dark place the headlights come on. Move the headlight switch from auto to off and back and the headlights go off. Move the switch to off again and back turns them on again. So it looks like you can turn them off but will have to do it each time you start the car.
I've just been to test this and everything works as you describe when the car is stationary.

Can you watch out for what happens when you are driving along and go under a few trees? I will be trying to remember to give the switch a quick turn to off when I start the car. However, it doesn't appear that Honda didn't think this through properly. Sensibly they would have left the switch with a proper off position but, given what seems to be a toggle arrangement, there should be an auto light status indicator.
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: Paulwhitt20 on September 14, 2015, 11:05:42 PM
It's my wife's car and she has not let me drive it yet but I have asked her to try and see what they do whilst the car is being driven. Does the green "lights on" led in the dash show what the lights are doing?

I don't know why Honda have designed the system like this it seems very complicated. My accord had auto lights and you could put them in off and they would stay off. On the accord the lights would not always come on when I wanted (ended up putting tape over the sensor so they were on all the time) and trying to remember to turn the auto lights off on the motorway as they would come on and go off when going under a bridge. Which can look like a headlamp flash.

Auto wipers are another auto feature that does not work as well as a human.
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: Paulwhitt20 on September 15, 2015, 07:37:06 PM
It seems to do the same in our car. You can switch the lights off when stationary but when you start moving again they come on. I suppose in the mind of the car you are being very noughty driving in what it thinks is the dark with the lights off. Some cars have the ability to change the sensitivity of the sensor but not this one it seems.

We have also turned off the lane departure warning as it was always going off on the country lanes etc.

Me thinks cars are trying to get too clever. The best safety device in a car is an alert driver. Perhaps car dealers should team up with the IAM and give free advanced driving lessons.

Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: guest4871 on September 15, 2015, 08:26:11 PM
Perhaps car dealers should team up with the IAM and give free advanced driving lessons.

+1
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: monkeydave on September 15, 2015, 08:33:15 PM
It seems to do the same in our car. You can switch the lights off when stationary but when you start moving again they come on. I suppose in the mind of the car you are being very noughty driving in what it thinks is the dark with the lights off. Some cars have the ability to change the sensitivity of the sensor but not this one it seems.

We have also turned off the lane departure warning as it was always going off on the country lanes etc.

Me thinks cars are trying to get too clever. The best safety device in a car is an alert driver. Perhaps car dealers should team up with the IAM and give free advanced driving lessons.

or perhaps they should take all this extra electronic stuff off the car and drop the price of the car
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: harry22673 on September 15, 2015, 10:34:05 PM
It seems to do the same in our car. You can switch the lights off when stationary but when you start moving again they come on. I suppose in the mind of the car you are being very noughty driving in what it thinks is the dark with the lights off. Some cars have the ability to change the sensitivity of the sensor but not this one it seems.

We have also turned off the lane departure warning as it was always going off on the country lanes etc.

Me thinks cars are trying to get too clever. The best safety device in a car is an alert driver. Perhaps car dealers should team up with the IAM and give free advanced driving lessons.

or perhaps they should take all this extra electronic stuff off the car and drop the price of the car
Now this is the truest truth I've ever seen
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: John Ratsey on September 16, 2015, 07:46:31 AM
I spent several hours yesterday behind the wheel and the auto lights defied all my efforts to get it under manual control. The lights also appeared to be triggered by a heavy shower but then stay on for several minutes after the rain has stopped. I think auto lights behaviour has to count as a defect and the dealer / Honda is going to have to fix it. Either by changing the switch or debugging the software.

Another related feature is that when the headlights come on, two lights come on on the dashboard. Left of the top of the speedo dial is a green light symbol with an A while right of the top of the speedo dial is the normal headlight symbol. Sensibly, the auto lights symbol should reflect whether the auto lights are enabled or disabled.

The lane change warning is best kept off unless doing motorway driving.

Some of these clever featurs and much of the Honda Connect system is also running the risk of getting into the chocolate teapot category. The base model of the Jazz may be a better choice for many but lacks the folding mirrors.
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: edam on September 16, 2015, 08:21:00 AM
Do the headlights come on when the wipers are operated?

Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: Rory on September 16, 2015, 09:44:36 AM
I don't know why Honda have designed the system like this it seems very complicated.

I wonder if there's some EU edict designed to make sure it's impossible to drive at night without lights on?  My issue with the old system during the daytime is if you did a couple of clicks from Off, you'd end with sidelights when you might have thought the headlights were on.  There was no indication inside the car of which lights were on (short of looking at the light switch, which isn't easy).

Mind you, for a while some Mercedes models didn't have an Off position at all. Just Auto, side, head. 


Auto wipers are another auto feature that does not work as well as a human.

I've had cars where it worked perfectly (several Peugeot models) so it can be done.  They didn't even have adjustable sensitivity and also had the feature that it cancelled after each journey - with Jazz the wipers would sometimes scrape across the screen on start-up if left on auto.
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: John Ratsey on September 17, 2015, 07:26:32 PM
The fuel gauge was down to 1/4 so I filled up the tank. 33.36 litres (somewhat less than 1/4) and 444 miles which calculates to 60.5 mpg of mainly A road driving with a significant fraction being in north Wales where the roads are neither straight or flat. This is close to what I was getting with the hybrid under similar driving conditions. The car's computer claimed 64.9 mpg which suggests that Honda haven't fixed that optimistic bias. I'll be more willing to get the fuel gauge closer to empty when somewhere with more opportunities to refill and see whether the gauge takes a rapid dive when below 1/4. The computer's miles remaining to empty seems to be much more sensitive to recent driving conditions than on the previous Jazz. After refuelling we went up a long hill and the miles remaining dropped to 387. Once down the other side it was at 587. 40 litres = 8.8 gallons = 528 miles at 60 mpg.

The auto idle stop remains unpredictable. I've made no progress with understanding the auto headlights but they seem to be slightly less likely to operate in overcast conditions than with sunshine and severe shadows. I don't think the lights are directly linked by the windscreen wiper behaviour but it's possible that the algorithm for the auto headlights gets and input from the rainfall sensor.
I've now driven round enough bends plus a small amount of motorway driving to say that I have no complaints about the steering, but I had no complaints about my previous Jazz in this respect.
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: John Ratsey on September 19, 2015, 10:26:11 AM
Home again (and just past 1,000 miles). I watched the headlight behaviour yesterday as we travelled through some showers in what were otherwise quite bright conditions. There's a lag of about a minute between the wipers starting to work and the headlights coming on and then a delay of 3 or 4 minutes between the wipers stopping working and the headlights going off. I've convinced myself that the software controlling the lights was written with very conservative rules for a car without DRLs (which might have had a proper 'off' setting on the switch) and no one thought to amend it to take account of the DRLs.

The auto idle stop almost behaved itself yesterday with the engine deciding to start itself after several minutes of stop-start traffic queuing for some traffic lights although, with only the fan running at its lowest setting and some music playing there couldn't have been much battery drain.

The new car seems to cruise along motorways with less effort than the HS hybrid - probably the result of improved aerodynamics and a bit less weight. However, I'll be more sure about this aspect when I encounter a strong headwind.

I have also mounted the camera close to the bottom left of the sensor unit and gets an acceptable view of the road (see photos). It's quite a compact camera (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00F5WP990 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00F5WP990)). The position means that the driver sees the bottom half of the camera below the mirror but it's not obtrusive.



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Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: Sidot on September 19, 2015, 12:35:56 PM
May I ask you please,  how did you conceal the wires to your car cam.
I have a sat nav and am always iritated by wires dropping all over the place.
Sticking them to the dash with tape causes marks on the plastic wich are permanent.
Thank you.
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: John Ratsey on September 19, 2015, 06:59:23 PM
May I ask you please,  how did you conceal the wires to your car cam.
I have a sat nav and am always iritated by wires dropping all over the place.
Sticking them to the dash with tape causes marks on the plastic wich are permanent.
Thank you.
At the moment the cable is held in place by some white foam double-sided tape because that is what I had available. However, I'm thinking of replacing it by some black tape which will be less obvious except on the door pillar. The current route for the cable is from the accessory socket, up the left side of the 7" screen, along the groove at the back edge of the cover for the front passenger air bag, around the door pillar to the side of the windscreen then around the edge (which has a black paint strip). How well the foam tape will work in the longer term remains to be seen -the glue is less effective under hot conditions. The sensible solution for the power supply would be to tap into the power which must be present in the sensor unit but it's too soon to be trying to pull the cover off.

I also attach a page from the latest Which? which includes a useful diagram about where the camera can, and cannot, be located on the windscreen. It seems that the camera shouldn't encroach more than 4cm into the wiped area (and not in front of the driver) so I may need to move it up slightly after putting enough muck onto the glass so that one pass of the wipers will define the boundaries.

On a different subject, I noticed the first paint chip on the bonnet. That orange paint is very thin! The little pot of touch-up paint is part of the agreed deal (along with mats, spare wheel and jack). The paint and the mats are due to reach the dealer in the next few days but there's no news about the wheel and jack).

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Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: Sidot on September 20, 2015, 04:58:28 AM
Thank you for your reply.
I have all kinds of issues and I don't even have the car yet !!
I'm worried about fitting my space saver wheel, someone has said that there may be safety issues with loading and weights in the lower boot area, I thought I could just screw it in place and all would be well. Does the new car come equipped with a jack and wheel nut spanner?  If not I must take the ones I have with me when I make the change.
You seem very " switched on " about the carcam installation, obviously tapping into the power supply within the sensor box is the ideal solution. Knowing me and the way I do things I would have wires hanging around everywhere.
Please kindly let me know if you find a way of achieving this.
Thank you for your replies and patience with me. I'm a Zazz enthusiast " of a certain age ! ".
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: JazzandJag on September 20, 2015, 05:38:03 AM
Sidot  I think you might have misinterpreted my comments regarding the boot floor in the "Spare Wheel" thread. There is absolutely no problem fitting the spacesaver spare in the boot well. The problem is that the carpeted lift-up boot floor is  not very strong and needs support from below. This is normally provided by a black rigid foam moulding shaped to fill the wheel well and has various recesses for tools etc. This has to be removed to install a spacesaver spare and the replacement foam moulding for use when a spacesaver is installed in the wheel well is not yet available, hence my dealer modifying the unit from my Mk2 until the correct part becomes available.

Regarding the tools, you will need to take the jack, handle and wheelbrace from your existing car but not the towing eye as a different type is supplied with the new car.

Hope this clarifies the situation

Regards J&J
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: Sidot on September 20, 2015, 07:30:26 AM
Thank you for putting my mind at rest regarding the boot well spare tyre issues.
Having been fortunate enough to have had a car provided as part of my job I had no experience of car purchase and trade in and such matters until the last few years when I bought my Honda Jazz Mk2.
I feel like I am stripping my current car of anything that isn't screwed down !!
I'm taking spare wheel, car jack, wheel spanner, spare set of locking wheelnuts and ash tray.Still, Brindley Honda have more money than me and the trade in value offered was derisory so no harm done I suppose.
Will have to ask them to do the modification work on the polystyrene support.
Thank you all once again for you valuable guidance.
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: Rory on September 20, 2015, 09:26:57 AM

I'm taking spare wheel, car jack, wheel spanner, spare set of locking wheelnuts and ash tray.Still, Brindley Honda have more money than me and the trade in value offered was derisory so no harm done I suppose.


All MKII's had a jack and wheel spanner so I don't think they'll be thrilled if you take those.

Does the MKIII really not have them?  As I recall it, the procedure on the MKII for using the tyre goo was to jack the wheel up first, and of course you'd need some way of removing the wheel to take it for repair if the goo proved unsuccessful.
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: edam on September 20, 2015, 10:42:45 AM
Found this

http://hondakarma.com/threads/jazz-15-model-year-on-board-toolkit-changes.12966/live (http://hondakarma.com/threads/jazz-15-model-year-on-board-toolkit-changes.12966/live)

No jack
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: RichardA on September 20, 2015, 07:28:15 PM
No jack, wheel brace or screwdriver with the '15 Jazz (last year of the Mk2) if you have the tyre repair kit. I would presume the Mk3 is the same.

Previous Mk2 model years had these items so they should be left with the car when you sell it (as should the spacesaver in a Mk1 because it was standard equipment).

Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: Downsizer on September 20, 2015, 08:59:37 PM


"Previous Mk2 model years had these items so they should be left with the car when you sell it....."
Buyer beware!
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: John Ratsey on September 20, 2015, 09:15:45 PM
Further to my previous comment about the wiper coverage for the sensors http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=7356.msg33883#msg33883 (http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=7356.msg33883#msg33883) I've taken a photo and made some measurements. The sensor unit intrudes 14cm into the wiped area - somewhat more than the 4cm that Which? says is allowed. Perhaps there's a waiver due to the sensor unit effectively being behind the mirror. I'll have to move my camera up to comply with Which?'s interpretation of the rules. I've put a couple of small marks on the inside of the windscreen with an indelible pen to use as reference.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: Eddie Honda on September 20, 2015, 09:49:43 PM
The sensor unit intrudes 14cm into the wiped area - somewhat more than the 4cm that Which? says is allowed. Perhaps there's a waiver due to the sensor unit effectively being behind the mirror. I'll have to move my camera up to comply with Which?'s interpretation of the rules.

Never mind what Which? say, just source material yourself http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m4s08000301.htm (http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m4s08000301.htm)

Quote
Original vehicle design characteristics are to be accepted
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: Sidot on September 22, 2015, 09:33:43 AM
I have telephone my Honda dealership with regard to the jack and wheel brace being missing on the new mk3.
They have been most helpful and accommodating.
They have no objection to me taking the jack etc with me into my new car and are going to check if a Mk2 polystyrene boot fitting will fit with the space saver in place if it does then I can take that with me too.
The mk3 poly thing certainly won't fit with a space saver in place....how crazy is that.
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: JazzandJag on September 22, 2015, 09:52:35 AM

They have no objection to me taking the jack etc with me into my new car and are going to check if a Mk2 polystyrene boot fitting will fit with the space saver in place if it does then I can take that with me too.


The modifications which were done to my Mk2 foam tool tray included cutting about a 2 inch strip off across  the width both front and rear and removal of the protrusion underneath which previously fitted into the upturned spacesaver. This was reasonably satisfactory but I have also packed below the rear left  corner (which was still inadequately supported) with a lot of bubble wrap to give a relatively firm boot floor onto which I am happy to load heavy luggage etc and will serve well until the Mk3 equivalent unit becomes available.
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: Sidot on September 22, 2015, 11:56:18 AM
I very much appreciate the help and guidance given by people on here.
Number plates being fitted to car today and diamond bright tomorrow so there is a chance I could have it by the weekend !
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: guest5643 on September 22, 2015, 06:02:05 PM
Went for a short trip to supermarket today,manually switched off the Auto Stop Start which is supposed to reset on restarting the car,came out to the car,ignition on and the Auto Stop Start was still switched off,pleased in a way because I could really have done without this gimmicky feature,I would have preferred a permanent override switch off.The A S S (forgive the acronym ;)) seems to have a mind of it's own,on a couple of occasions if I forgot to switch it off the engine keeps running when I come to a halt??Please Mr Honda recall my car and sort this with a software flash so I have one less thing to think about when starting the engine.
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: John Ratsey on September 22, 2015, 07:18:44 PM
Was it switched off or just decided not to work? The handbook (pages 404 to 413) lists conditions that would cause the auto idle stop to not function while pages 109-111 show various indications that should appear on the multi-function display to indicate which item on the list was the reason (I've never noticed these but maybe didn't look at the right moment). I like the auto idle stop in principle having had it on the hybrid where it worked well (except for when the engine was cold or too much crawling in queuing traffic) and expect it to work on my new car with the same degree of predictability. Unfortunately, my experience to date is that it sometimes doesn't operate when the conditions listed in the book indicate that it should and then I watch the current trip mpg display drop as the engine uses fuel going nowhere.

The auto headlights remain my biggest complaint. Not so much because of unpredictability (I am working out the rules - a bit of shadow, a few drops of rain) but because they come on when it's not necessary given that the car has DRLs. How are you finding your lights?
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: guest5643 on September 23, 2015, 01:33:56 PM
John,my grumble is that Stop/ Start cannot be permanently disabled via the switch provided,as I explained in my post it's erratic if I forget to switch it off on first starting the engine, sometimes it operates when resarting the engine,other times it remains off without me pressing the off switch,as you rightly pointed out there are too many variables listed in the owners handbook,not good in my opinion.The Auto headlights are far too sensative and stay on for quite some time,unable to switch them off,another annoyance,I have seen other cars enter a bridge and their headlights come on but almost immediatly switch off on exit,mine stay on far too long.     
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: Rory on September 23, 2015, 03:02:40 PM
John,my grumble is that Stop/ Start cannot be permanently disabled via the switch provided,

That's an emissions thing - the car has to start up in its default condition as it was when it was tested.

(Unless it's a VW, of course. ;) )
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: trebor1652 on September 23, 2015, 05:41:51 PM
Just been speaking to my local dealer and he tells me that the new batch of jazz's will be painted under the bonnet and inside the petrol filler cover. So if you have an early one I think you should see your dealer about getting the paint job 'finished'.

Sent from my XT1039 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: monkeydave on September 23, 2015, 05:56:08 PM
im so happy i got the S A/C without all this extra "helpful" features and not the SE with stop start that came out later
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: guest3042 on September 25, 2015, 04:56:06 PM
Thanks for the excellent review. I currently own a Jazz Hybrid and one thing I like about it is the tight turning circle. Does anyone know if the new Jazz compares well with the Hybrid in this respect?

Thanks
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: John Ratsey on September 26, 2015, 07:02:12 PM
Thanks for the excellent review. I currently own a Jazz Hybrid and one thing I like about it is the tight turning circle. Does anyone know if the new Jazz compares well with the Hybrid in this respect?
Honda's specs for the new SE state "Turning Circle - at Body (m) = 10.8" and for the hybrid Mk2 it's "Turning Circle - at Body (m) = 10.82" which means almost identical. I've not noticed any significant difference in this respect between the HS and the new SE.

Ona a different subbject, I spent an hour at my dealer yesterday and they now understand what my complaint about the auto headlights is, ie that there is no manual override for the auto system once the car is moving. They have now email Honda's technical department. They said that no one else has complained about the auto headlights to which I replied that maybe people hadn't noticed but, once they do, they will probably be annoyed. My position is that if I have a switch where "off" means off then I won't need to debate the merits of the logic behind the auto headlights.

Also, for the auto idle stop, if the car decides to not implement auto idle stop under circumstances when it should then it will show a symbol on the multi-function display for a few sectonds (so this is easily missed). I have briefly caught sight of the battery symbol which suggests that this auto system likes to have a very well charged battery. Honda have provided a 45Ah battery but perhaps they should have also provided a solar panel to help keep the battery topped up.

I was also shown that the entertainment system can connect to an Android 5 phone and mirror whatever is on the phone's screen. However, this stops the moment the handbrake is released so there's no chance of having a mapping app (or anything else running on the phone) being shown on the main screen while the car is in motion.
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: VicW on September 26, 2015, 07:11:11 PM
Is it possible that this auto headlight function means that you cannot manually switch your headlights on in falling rain when it may not be dark enough for the auto function to operate?
If so then the system may be violating the construction and use regulations.

Vic.
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: John Ratsey on September 26, 2015, 07:29:37 PM
Is it possible that this auto headlight function means that you cannot manually switch your headlights in falling rain when it may not be dark enough for the auto function to operate?
If so then the system may be violating the construction and use regulations.
The auto headlights are triggered by a few raindrops even on a bright sunny day with several miles visibility although there seems to be a threshold period (maybe half a minute with some raindrops). And, once on, the headlights stay on for three or four minutes after the rain has stopped.

Also, manual control for turning lights on exists. The switch has four positions: Off, Auto, Side lights, Headlights. The problem is that the switch is spring loaded so it won't stay in off but reverts to the auto position. Turning the switch to off when the car is parked will turn the auto headlights off (by default the car puts the headlights on when it is unlocked in dark conditiions although this can be disabled) but the moment the car is put in gear the headlights will come on again if the system thinks the conditions are appropriate. I think I have found out one way to over-ride the auto headlights - set the switch to side lights! However, this turns off the DRLs so the front of the car will be less visible than with the DRLs (which are much, much, brighter than the side lights).
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: guest3042 on September 26, 2015, 10:07:53 PM
John - Many thanks for your comprehensive reply to my turning circle query. Good to know.
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: VicW on September 29, 2015, 03:40:06 PM
I had a chat with 'my' Honda salesman today about the headlight switching in both the new Jazz and HRV.
He said that you can disable the auto function once the car is started or the ignition switch is put in the 'run' position by selecting 'off' momentarily but that you have to do this every time.
Having done this you can select 'headlights' to put them on.
I don't like auto headlight switches and this would get right up my nose.

Vic.
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: guest5643 on September 29, 2015, 07:50:39 PM
Couple of things I would have liked,door mirror switches to be illuminated when lights are on,door mirrors auto retract when locking the vehicle,smaller front seat headrests,jack and wheelbrace provided,able to permanently disable auto stop/start,larger buttons on keyfob, the 1.5 ltr engine fitted to the HRV.     
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: John Ratsey on September 29, 2015, 08:06:39 PM
He said that you can disable the auto function once the car is started or the ignition switch is put in the 'run' position by selecting 'off' momentarily but that you have to do this every time.
Having done this you can select 'headlights' to put them on.
My salesman also tried telling me these fixes but couldn't make them work on my car when I asked him to show me how it was done as I couldn't get it to work because what appeared to work when the car was stopped had no effect once it started to move. Ask your salesman to stop the car just outside the workshop, go through the steps to disable the auto headlights and then drive in. I was surprised that the headlights would want to come on in what was a well-illuminated workshop, but they did.

Couple of things I would have liked,door mirror switches to be illuminated when lights are on,door mirrors auto retract when locking the vehicle,smaller front seat headrests,jack and wheelbrace provided,able to permanently disable auto stop/start,larger buttons on keyfob, the 1.5 ltr engine fitted to the HRV.     
That's a long "couple" but they are all valid points. Auto folding mirrors (but subject to manual override) would be a useful feature but the logic would need to remember that if the mirrors were manually folded (eg before parking in a garage) then they would need to be manually unfolded. I think I had already commented on the small buttons on the key which could be challenging in winter with gloves on. There's no obvious need to have such small buttons.
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: Rory on September 29, 2015, 08:57:43 PM
,able to permanently disable auto stop/start... the 1.5 ltr engine fitted to the HRV.     

Stop/start has to default to on as it's part of emissions testing.  1.5L engine isn't likely for similar reasons - they need to keep the company average emissions down.
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: guest5643 on September 30, 2015, 01:56:58 PM
,able to permanently disable auto stop/start... the 1.5 ltr engine fitted to the HRV.     

Stop/start has to default to on as it's part of emissions testing.  1.5L engine isn't likely for similar reasons - they need to keep the company average emissions down.
Honda install the 1.5 ltr engine for the American,Asian,Australian and New Zealand markets,would have been nice to have been given the option,both the 1.3 ltr and 1.5 ltr engines are available in New Zealand,pity that tiny Europe misses out because of crazy emission laws that VW are cheating to get their dirty polluting engines through emissions testing,do as I say,not as I do ;)
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: Paulwhitt20 on October 03, 2015, 07:13:44 PM
Just cleaned ours for the first time today. Must say it has a lot of nooks and crannies that are hard to dry and the 16inch wheels are particularly hard to clean with a sponge. 
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: guest5643 on October 03, 2015, 08:41:20 PM
Just cleaned ours for the first time today. Must say it has a lot of nooks and crannies that are hard to dry and the 16inch wheels are particularly hard to clean with a sponge.
The wheels on the ES aren't too bad to clean,I find using one of these a big help  http://www.wilko.com/car-cleaning/wilko-short-handle-car-wash-brush/invt/0258092 (http://www.wilko.com/car-cleaning/wilko-short-handle-car-wash-brush/invt/0258092)
Title: Re: New Jazz Owners Observations and Comments
Post by: John Ratsey on October 05, 2015, 05:57:44 PM
I managed to put over 36 litres into the tank today. The fuel gauge was on 3 bars (out of 20), the car said 46 miles remaining and there was no low fuel warning light. The most I ever put in the hybrid was 33.5 litres due to the car warning it was about to run out.

So, on my new Jazz the fuel gauge seems to be quite optimistic and the miles remaining a less conservative estimate than previously to the extent that I wouldn't want to be stuck in a big traffic jam with an almost empty tank (and auto idle stop sulking). What have others noticed? Based on miles and litres this refilling indicated 55.8 mpg while the car's computer claimed 61.7 mpg - the over-optimistic mpg reported by the computer hasn't changed.